Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

[billyiddo]

It's all subjective but no for me I did not think we were good last season. My critique came very early on, as early as the leicester game because I was begining to see the same pattern from the previous repeating.

The football early on in season two was very laboured/turgid - we were picking up results and the hope was that the football would get back to what we saw early in the first season, the same hope that we had in the second half of season one. But we never got close to that type of football again. I eventually reached the conclusion that that football wasn't even what we were aiming towards given how different we setup across key positions in the team. Son & Maddison in particular were most noticeable - both key to that early football but clearly at that stage the demands of their role within the setup had not fully sunk in.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't know why being favourites for the tournament was ever meant to be some sort of 'put down' in regards to the achievement - A big part of the Spurzzzy tag whether it's harsh or not is because we don't deliver when we are expected to and don't deliver on the big occassion. We delivered on both accounts....

We were favourites because Ange had done a great job achieving a 5th place finish in the PL for us to qualify as the highest place team in the best league.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We also started well this season - especially away from home - "until the injuries got bad"... actually far worse than last season

But what applied last season does not seem to apply now....

FFS Ange!!!!

 

[braineclipse]

FIFY.

If only things were that easy to fix...

Ange naive and incompetent, bring in someone pragmatic and competent, surely things will improve.

Did the attacking and high risk football thing, didn't work so surely going in the opposite direction will be the right decision.

Meanwhile Ange had one 5th place finish, one 17th with a EL win. For me at least most ways one can spin it Frank looks on track to have a worse season than Ange's worst season. If true that Ange was naive and incompetent that's not a good look for Frank. I desperately hope he turns it around because I have my doubts about a caretaker and while things are looking fairly bad now it can always get worse.

 

[braineclipse]

It's all subjective but no for me I did not think we were good last season. My critique came very early on, as early as the leicester game because I was begining to see the same pattern from the previous season repeating.

We were inconsistent, there for sure were flaws there. But we were also good at times.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Omg yes this season has been so much better!

The table today:
15th Tottenham Hotspur 25 7 8 10 35 35 0 29

The table on February 9 2025:
14th Tottenham Hotspur 24 8 3 13 48 37 11 27

Incredible improvement that's made this all so worth it.

Perhaps ENIC shall treat our next manager to a CMF who can control the match tempo as well as Wharton or Anderson Maybe the Transfer Committee shall even stumble across the next Modric or Dembele

2. Spurs’ historic low​

Ange Postecoglou and Thomas Frank have each overseen 25 of Tottenham’s past 50 league games — and that period has produced the club’s lowest 50-game points haul since 1913-15, counting three points for a win throughout. Frank has contributed 29 points and Postecoglou 18 to that meagre tally of 47.

Sitting only six points above the bottom three, they are the closest to the relegation zone that any “big six” club has languished after 25 games of a campaign since Spurs themselves in 2008-09.

Ange’s last 25 PL games: Won 5 Drawn 3 Lost 17 For 36 Against 51 Points 18

Ramos’ last 25 PL games: Won 5 Drawn 9 Lost 11 For 29 Against 35 Points 24

Frank’s first 25 PL games: Won 7 Drawn 8 Lost 10 For 35 Against 35 Points 29

Premier League top ten: Michael Carrick follows same steps as Solskjaer

Our resident stats guru on the similarities between the Manchester United bosses, Cole Palmer’s link to Jimmy Greaves and James Milner’s record 242 not out

www.thetimes.com

 

[Mikey10]

If only things were that easy to fix...

Ange naive and incompetent, bring in someone pragmatic and competent, surely things will improve.

Did the attacking and high risk football thing, didn't work so surely going in the opposite direction will be the right decision.

Meanwhile Ange had one 5th place finish, one 17th with a EL win. For me at least most ways one can spin it Frank looks on track to have a worse season than Ange's worst season. If true that Ange was naive and incompetent that's not a good look for Frank. I desperately hope he turns it around because I have my doubts about a caretaker and while things are looking fairly bad now it can always get worse.

All perfectly fair, but still doesn't negate the reasons for the sacking of Ange - for exactly the same reasons some are saying that Frank should go. Where we were in the PL wasn't anywhere near good enough and the decision to send him off was the right one.

 

[Mabspurs]

I honestly cannot see the scope of continuing with this discussion....

One faction believes the league position is the result of an inadequate coach who is unable to utilise the abilities of a squad that, on paper, suggests it is better than the results show

The other faction believes the league position is the result of an inadequate and unbalanced squad - the result of poor recruitment and massive injuries - which is unable to utilise the abilities of a coach whose track record suggests he is better than the results show

 

[clownfoot]

For me the fact that Ange is being discussed 7 months into the season shows Frank isn’t doing well. If he were, then no comparisons would be being made at this point.

We’re in a bad spot and some of the blame lies with both Ange and Frank, some of the blame with others higher up the club. We’ve sleepwalked as a club into being on the brink of a relegation battle two seasons running.

We have to win tonight otherwise VV is going to have to consider how long his ‘hold the line’ stance with the manager can realistically last

 

[braineclipse]

All perfectly fair, but still doesn't negate the reasons for the sacking of Ange - for exactly the same reasons some are saying that Frank should go. Where we were in the PL wasn't anywhere near good enough and the decision to send him off was the right one.

I have no real disagreements with Ange getting sacked. Personally I was torn on that, but can definitely see the rationale for him having to go.

I think some of the descriptions of him and his football are over the top, and for a manager who oversaw us lifting our first trophy in 17 years, and the biggest trophy in even longer that to me seems unfair.

I also think as a lot of fairly strong arguments are made about the shortcomings of the squad that should also reflect on Ange who managed both a 5th place finish and a EL win with an imo worse squad.

 

[Muttley]

I honestly cannot see the scope of continuing with this discussion....

One faction believes the league position is the result of an inadequate coach who is unable to utilise the abilities of a squad that, on paper, suggests it is better than the results show

The other faction believes the league position is the result of an inadequate and unbalanced squad - the result of poor recruitment and massive injuries - which is unable to utilise the abilities of a coach whose track record suggests he is better than the results show

Yep, and then you throw in the Ange debate. For me, Frank is mutually exclusive to anything that Ange did or didn't do. There is no healthy dialogue that will ever come from comparing the two as we all start from different places.

The reality is Frank was given a charter to manage the 25/26 Spurs. He was given a set of resources that he needed to optimise and get them for perform. He has had mitigating circumstances after losing key stalwarts of the squad and has had a revolving door of injuries all season. Spurs have also had some of the worst refereeing (inc tech) that I've ever witnessed in my lifetime.

The only assessment should really be whether he's optimised what he's had to work with. Personally, I only took positive data points out of the weekend game. It was a dead rubber as soon as our captain left the field. However, I think we were the better team before the sending off and equipped ourselves really well after. The players played for their manager and the shirt, and we also saw Souza emerge. That was a really pleasant surprise for me how well he played.

I have no clue whether Frank survives this or not.

 

[Muttley]

I have no real disagreements with Ange getting sacked. Personally I was torn on that, but can definitely see the rationale for him having to go.

I think some of the descriptions of him and his football are over the top, and for a manager who oversaw us lifting our first trophy in 17 years, and the biggest trophy in even longer that to me seems unfair.

I also think as a lot of fairly strong arguments are made about the shortcomings of the squad that should also reflect on Ange who managed both a 5th place finish and a EL win with an imo worse squad.

I just don't get what Ange has to do with Frank though. It feels like we're using Ange as a stick to beat Frank with. Is that fair?

 

[Rafa87]

For me the fact that Ange is being discussed 7 months into the season shows Frank isn’t doing well. If he were, then no comparisons would be being made at this point.

We’re in a bad spot and some of the blame lies with both Ange and Frank, some of the blame with others higher up the club. We’ve sleepwalked as a club into being on the brink of a relegation battle two seasons running.

We have to win tonight otherwise VV is going to have to consider how long his ‘hold the line’ stance with the manager can realistically last

Yeah, for me I can’t be doing with the Ange vs Frank stuff anymore at this point.

The point that both have struggled in the league over a 38 games season (appreciate Frank isn’t there yet) points to a very clear problem with the club, it’s direction, competitiveness, ambition, recruitment, the backing of managers, and a seemingly never ending injury issue which plagues the club.

It’s too easy to play ‘who did better’ out of the two managers, we need to be looking at the systemic problems within the club.

 

[Mabspurs]

Yep, and then you throw in the Ange debate. For me, Frank is mutually exclusive to anything that Ange did or didn't do. There is no healthy dialogue that will ever come from comparing the two as we all start from different places.

The reality is Frank was given a charter to manage the 25/26 Spurs. He was given a set of resources that he needed to optimise and get them for perform. He has had mitigating circumstances after losing key stalwarts of the squad and has had a revolving door of injuries all season. Spurs have also had some of the worst refereeing (inc tech) that I've ever witnessed in my lifetime.

The only assessment should really be whether he's optimised what he's had to work with. Personally, I only took positive data points out of the weekend game. It was a dead rubber as soon as our captain left the field. However, I think we were the better team before the sending off and equipped ourselves really well after. The players played for their manager and the shirt, and we also saw Souza emerge. That was a really pleasant surprise for me how well he played.

I have no clue whether Frank survives this or not.

From my perspective, the "Ange debate" - as you refer to it - is relevant to the Frank discussion only in terms of the common factor between them... practically the same squad - Sonny vs Kudus; Madders / Kulu vs Xavi - and reasonably similar injury problems (actually slightly worse for Frank). Unless both are hopeless coaches (which their past record would not support), this would suggest that the issue is therefore the common factor i.e. the squad.

As a result, my position has always been that bringing in yet another coach is unlikely to change anything much and, if and when the injury situation improves, there is the likelihood that our performances would do likewise.

 

[Muttley]

From my perspective, the "Ange debate" - as you refer to it - is relevant to the Frank discussion only in terms of the common factor between them... practically the same squad - Sonny vs Kudus; Madders / Kulu vs Xavi - and reasonably similar injury problems (actually slightly worse for Frank). Unless both are hopeless coaches (which their past record would not support), this would suggest that the issue is therefore the common factor i.e. the squad.

As a result, my position has always been that bringing in yet another coach is unlikely to change anything much and, if and when the injury situation improves, there is the likelihood that our performances would do likewise.

I think my big frustration though is that all I read is comparisons between Ange season 2 and Frank season 1.

As for the squad, I think you have to ask the question what percentage of the best eleven is missing and what percentage of the best 16 are missing at any point in time. Frank has mostly operated without about a third of his best eleven and about half his best match day squad (players that get on the pitch). Ange's data swung massively different across the 2 seasons.

If you plotted those 2 lines on a weekly chart for both managers, it would be contrastingly different curves in my mind. That is why even the squad comparison isn't a great one.

I still say we should narrow in on Frank's actual performance with the fit players he has had at his disposal. You also discover a mini-silver lining that when you look at squad places 17 to 25 you see that the squad has got stronger over the 3 years of both managers. Without that, I genuinely think we would be in or very close to the relegation places.

 

[braineclipse]

I just don't get what Ange has to do with Frank though. It feels like we're using Ange as a stick to beat Frank with. Is that fair?

Ange gets brought up by different people. Both to criticise Frank and to defend Frank it seems. And probably also just leftovers of past disagreements.

To some extent comparing how a manager is doing to how the last guy was doing is probably helpful. But for sure Ange gets brought up a lot still, more than I remember some of our previous managers. I think because opinions on Ange were and remain fairly polarised.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Nope wasn’t me. Your memory doesn’t serve you well. I didn’t think we were in danger of relegation last year (whereas this year I staked quite a large sum on it happening).

Regarding David Moyes though, I think he is a better manager than Frank by a long way (and Ange too).

I will never be able to reconcile betting against your own team. Probably why I’m rubbish at gambling

 

[Daisuk]

I will never be able to reconcile betting against your own team. Probably why I’m rubbish at gambling

Makes perfect sense to me. There’s a bit of a consolation if we lose. I’ve never done it, mind, but it kind of makes sense to do so. Win win, in a weird way.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Makes perfect sense to me. There’s a bit of a consolation if we lose. I’ve never done it, mind, but it kind of makes sense to do so. Win win, in a weird way.

Yes I do get that aspect but it just feels like tempting fate to me.
Which obviously superstition doesn’t really exist and that’s why bookmakers are far richer than I am!

 

[Baleforce]

Perhaps ENIC shall treat our next manager to a CMF who can control the match tempo as well as Wharton or Anderson Maybe the Transfer Committee shall even stumble across the next Modric or Dembele

2. Spurs’ historic low​

Ange Postecoglou and Thomas Frank have each overseen 25 of Tottenham’s past 50 league games — and that period has produced the club’s lowest 50-game points haul since 1913-15, counting three points for a win throughout. Frank has contributed 29 points and Postecoglou 18 to that meagre tally of 47.

Sitting only six points above the bottom three, they are the closest to the relegation zone that any “big six” club has languished after 25 games of a campaign since Spurs themselves in 2008-09.

Ange’s last 25 PL games: Won 5 Drawn 3 Lost 17 For 36 Against 51 Points 18

Ramos’ last 25 PL games: Won 5 Drawn 9 Lost 11 For 29 Against 35 Points 24

Frank’s first 25 PL games: Won 7 Drawn 8 Lost 10 For 35 Against 35 Points 29

Premier League top ten: Michael Carrick follows same steps as Solskjaer

Our resident stats guru on the similarities between the Manchester United bosses, Cole Palmer’s link to Jimmy Greaves and James Milner’s record 242 not out

www.thetimes.com

That’s not what we hoped for, and you have to consider strength of schedule.

But it is a significant improvement statistically.