***The official health and fitness thread***

[Richie]

I've just explained to you scientifically why what you are saying is not scientific fact. But you're still claiming it is. So, let's look at it from another angle, show me the equation that is used to work out that there are 3500 calories in 1lb of fat.

There are plenty of people who are 17st 10% body fat. Pick any pro rugby team and you'll find a few.

It will only average out as 2lb 'in time' if the person losing the weight has the correct metabolic conditions (as explained in my previous post) for them to lose 2lb per week on a 1000 calorie deficit. As I keep saying, this is not everybody.

I do agree with your last statement about people not re evaluating requirements though.

I don't quite understand your 'metabolic conditions' argument here. The issue is about taking 1000 calories off of your maintenance calories, this takes in to account all factors such as metabolic rate, sex, age, exercise levels etc... Your point about varying conditions is correct, as the person loses weight their metabolism changes and therefore the maintenance calories needs to be adjusted, but this doesn't affect the calories in vs calories out (CICO) argument. Obviously if someone loses 50lbs they will need fewer calories compared to when they were heavier, but these issues are addressed in tandem with CICO and eating at a deficit.

I see your argument about a 17st man at 10% body fat, but that's a straw man IMO. This kind of advice is clearly aimed at the average overweight person in the UK, not professional athletes who are by definition genetic abnormalities. For someone who has a significant amount of fat to lose and minimum muscle the advice is sound IMO, although I would advocate a 500 calorie deficit.

You are likely correct (I don't know the maths) about your calculations on the energy store of fat and muscle, but fat is designed to be an energy store and will be used first assuming the person is active. If someone is 20%+ body fat, eating at a deficit and exercising regularly, the vast majority of their weight loss will be fat and the 2lb/week figure will be roughly correct.

 

[Roy1983]

Of course this applies to weight loss that's what we're discussing. This is the only topic where I have to come across as an **** hole, something I don't like doing any more, but my view is simple - and anyone can lose weight if they want to listen and change their lives.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

I don't quite understand your 'metabolic conditions' argument here. The issue is about taking 1000 calories off of your maintenance calories, this takes in to account all factors such as metabolic rate, sex, age, exercise levels etc... Your point about varying conditions is correct, as the person loses weight their metabolism changes and therefore the maintenance calories needs to be adjusted, but this doesn't affect the calories in vs calories out (CICO) argument. Obviously if someone loses 50lbs they will need fewer calories compared to when they were heavier, but these issues are addressed in tandem with CICO and eating at a deficit.

As I said in my previous post, two people of the same weight and body composition can have differing maintenance calorie requirements based on hormone levels, its still individual to that specific person. The calories out equation is correct, I'm not arguing that, it's just slightly more complex and individual than you are making out.

I see your argument about a 17st man at 10% body fat, but that's a straw man IMO. This kind of advice is clearly aimed at the average overweight person in the UK, not professional athletes who are by definition genetic abnormalities. For someone who has a significant amount of fat to lose and minimum muscle the advice is sound IMO, although I would advocate a 500 calorie deficit.

We'll forget the 17st 10% guy then. For someone who has a significant amount of fat to lose and minimum muscle my advice would be for them to immediately embark on a strength program whilst eating at maintenance.

You are likely correct (I don't know the maths) about your calculations on the energy store of fat and muscle, but fat is designed to be an energy store and will be used first assuming the person is active. If someone is 20%+ body fat, eating at a deficit and exercising regularly, the vast majority of their weight loss will be fat and the 2lb/week figure will be roughly correct.

You are probably correct for most. But everyone is not 20%+ bodyfat. Your advice was a single statement, 'all you have to do lose wight is subtract 1,000 calories from your daily intake and you will lose 2lb per week'. If you had said 'If you are 20%+ body fat all you have to do to lose weight is subtract 1,000 calories from your daily intake and you will lose about 2lb per week' I would have been fine with that.

That was my only issue with what you said.

Of course this applies to weight loss that's what we're discussing. This is the only topic where I have to come across as an **** hole, something I don't like doing any more, but my view is simple - and anyone can lose weight if they want to listen and change their lives.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

I don't quite understand your 'metabolic conditions' argument here. The issue is about taking 1000 calories off of your maintenance calories, this takes in to account all factors such as metabolic rate, sex, age, exercise levels etc... Your point about varying conditions is correct, as the person loses weight their metabolism changes and therefore the maintenance calories needs to be adjusted, but this doesn't affect the calories in vs calories out (CICO) argument. Obviously if someone loses 50lbs they will need fewer calories compared to when they were heavier, but these issues are addressed in tandem with CICO and eating at a deficit.

As I said in my previous post, two people of the same weight and body composition can have differing maintenance calorie requirements based on hormone levels, its still individual to that specific person.

The 1lb fat = 3500cals equation has been shown to be variable too, as depending on the lipid profile of the fat tested there can be anything from 7 point something to 9 point something cals in it. But we're getting into semantics now.

My point is not that the CICO theory isn't true. It absolutely is, and has been shown through many studies. Its just a bit more complex than you are suggesting (too complex to simply say drop 1,000 cals less = 2lb per week loss for everyone).

I see your argument about a 17st man at 10% body fat, but that's a straw man IMO. This kind of advice is clearly aimed at the average overweight person in the UK, not professional athletes who are by definition genetic abnormalities. For someone who has a significant amount of fat to lose and minimum muscle the advice is sound IMO, although I would advocate a 500 calorie deficit.

We'll forget the 17st 10% guy. Although for someone who has a significant amount of fat to lose and minimum muscle my advice would be for them to immediately embark on a strength program whilst eating at maintenance.

You are likely correct (I don't know the maths) about your calculations on the energy store of fat and muscle, but fat is designed to be an energy store and will be used first assuming the person is active. If someone is 20%+ body fat, eating at a deficit and exercising regularly, the vast majority of their weight loss will be fat and the 2lb/week figure will be roughly correct.

Yes, but everyone is not 20%+ bodyfat. Your advice was a stand alone statement, 'all you have to do lose wight is subtract 1,000 calories from your daily intake and you will lose 2lb per week'. If you had said 'If you are 20%+ body fat all you have to do to lose weight is subtract 1,000 calories from your daily intake and you will lose about 2lb per week' I would have been fine with that.

That was my only issue with what you said.

Of course this applies to weight loss that's what we're discussing. This is the only topic where I have to come across as an **** hole, something I don't like doing any more, but my view is simple - and anyone can lose weight if they want to listen and change their lives.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Grays_1890]

I have finally got my eating down, thankfully, not had a drink in two weeks either, so at the minute all good. Upping the cardio aswell, in two weeks I have noticed small changes which is great, gives me the push I need to keep going.

Here is hoping I can make another 2 weeks although I have a work trip next weekend which will be party central.

 

[Richie]

I have finally got my eating down, thankfully, not had a drink in two weeks either, so at the minute all good. Upping the cardio aswell, in two weeks I have noticed small changes which is great, gives me the push I need to keep going.

Here is hoping I can make another 2 weeks although I have a work trip next weekend which will be party central.

Nice work mate. It's a bit strange but I always think about British Cycling and 'marginal gains' when dieting, don't use breaking your diet as an excuse to go crazy and binging. Instead of drinking a beer have a vodka with diet coke, instead of a burger and chips have a burger with side salad etc... The combination of lots of good small choices really adds up over the long run, it's much more effective than trying to go cold turkey and denying yourself things you enjoy.

I absolutely love fizzy drinks and didn't want to stop drinking them, so I switched to Coke Zero instead of regular. Now I find the regular drinks too sweet and enjoy the zero calorie alternatives more.

Another one is sweets, I never big bags because I will sit down and eat the whole thing without blinking an eyelid. If I want some I walk to the shop, buy something small and eat it when I get home. If I want more, I have to walk to the shop again, which I have never been bothered to do.

 

[Grays_1890]

Thanks mate

I did the cutting of one thing per week before Christmas, started with Sugar then milk in my drinks and food. Then obviously Christmas hit but I stuck to those too, then I cut booze, then starchy carbs(make some exceptions). So my typical day would be...Breakie: two poached egg on one wholemeal toast - black coffee, Snack: half a packet of grilled chicken, Lunch: grilled chicken salad or tuna salad, Snack: other half of chicken pack, dinner: sweet potato jacket potato, tuna or chicken or turkey and veg.

That's just a typical example but I stick to that a general plan, then when I have time I sub in certain things like home made turkey burgers for dinner (no bun) etc etc

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

The gym I train in just bought a Prowler. Had a rip on it this week, absolute beast for conditioning!

 

[Thebarbarian]

Ok lads, little bit of serious advice needed, no silly stuff

Wife and daughter back in Ireland for 3 weeks in June/July so good time for me to improve myself,

Not really overweight , 79kg at 5'9" so maybe 3kg to lose but that is easy . I'm 46 years old and gave up football 2 years ago and beginning to get a bit out of shape rather than overweight.

Would like missus to come back from her 3 weeks and me be a bit fitter , so here are the facts/rules/objectives,

I am reasonably fit , play golf regularly , walk a bit
I have a decent road bike
I have a treadmill but hate running ( knee ligaments don't help)
Have 20kg of dumb bells at home
200m from beach, swimming always an option

So, can I build upper body in 3 weeks ? Legs ok,
Don't need to lose much weight so diet not imperative
Just want to tone up

Any advice without too difficult a re

 

[spitshine]

Ok lads, little bit of serious advice needed, no silly stuff

Wife and daughter back in Ireland for 3 weeks in June/July so good time for me to improve myself,

Not really overweight , 79kg at 5'9" so maybe 3kg to lose but that is easy . I'm 46 years old and gave up football 2 years ago and beginning to get a bit out of shape rather than overweight.

Would like missus to come back from her 3 weeks and me be a bit fitter , so here are the facts/rules/objectives,

I am reasonably fit , play golf regularly , walk a bit
I have a decent road bike
I have a treadmill but hate running ( knee ligaments don't help)
Have 20kg of dumb bells at home
200m from beach, swimming always an option

So, can I build upper body in 3 weeks ? Legs ok,
Don't need to lose much weight so diet not imperative
Just want to tone up

Any advice without too difficult a re

Just thinking why don't you think diet is important? I've noticed that since eating less and generally being more careful in what I eat/snack this had led to better times and longer distances on the treadmill.

 

[Thebarbarian]

Fair point spit , but what I mean is I am pretty good at controlling my diet, I love cooking so eat fairly healthy (love a beer though ! ) and don't have any issues with improving dietary things. Main problem is just lack of constant physical conditioning, since giving up footy and really disliking gyms I find I'm just a bit lazy.

As an accountant there is no natural daily exercise so just need a simple, not too time consuming programme with the equipment I have to just condition a bit. As I said wife and daughter are away so probably have a bit more available time to get onto this .

Forgot to mention, also have an energetic staffy so the walking side of things will increase anyway. Really just looking to get arms and chest a bit better ( slow down the moobs effect!)

 

[spasm]

5 stone loss over the last 8 months..with no exercise..
Hope to lose another 5 stone in the next year..yes..i am the original fat bloke
started walking this week to improve my cardiovascular function.

 

[hertyid]

5 stone in 8 months?! wow that is incredible.
I must have missed it earlier in this thread but what weight were you at the start?

 

[spasm]

started at 312 lbs. Down to 241 at the weekend.

Been morbidly obese ALL my life. Was not too bad when I was active but as I got older...

target is to get to around 170 within 12 months.

 

[the dza]

Good work Spasm.

 

[spitshine]

5 stone loss over the last 8 months..with no exercise..
Hope to lose another 5 stone in the next year..yes..i am the original fat bloke
started walking this week to improve my cardiovascular function.

Please explain how you lost this? What was your starting weight

 

[markysimmo]

I just ordered a bike, wil start cycling to work and out with the girlfriend and her little girl

 

[the dza]

I'm gonna go workout in a minute. I used to be right into lifting weights, got up to a 180kg squat (though I was a bit heavier when I did that). I'm 5ft 9 and 12 n half stone at the moment.

These days, I just ponce about with light weights/body weight stuff twice a week. I walk about all day at work, always on my feet, so I can never be ar5ed with cardio. I use some crappy weights that a muscle-head mate gave me (he no longer uses them).

Today's workout will be:

Dips off the side of the bath, 100 reps total. I do it so that, say I get 50 reps, I have 50 left to do so I rest 50 seconds. Then do another 30 reps, that's 80 reps total, 20 left to do, so rest 20 seconds etc. They call it 'hundreds training'. I try for either hundred or fifty total reps depending on the lift.

Standing press, hundreds style. I press from around chin height to top of forehead, so its like a partial move. Not locking out

Curl and press. Fifty reps style (like the hundreds, but only aiming for 50 reps total). Today, I might try and ramp this up to hundreds though, coz I'm feeling strong at the weight I've been using, so time to up the workload a bit.

Kelso Shrug (my bastardised version of it). Pull the shoulder blades together rather than shrugs. Hundreds style.

Upright row - Fiftys style normally, will try hundreds today.

Pendlay row -- like a bent over row, but start from the floor each time, so more strict. Will see what my energy is whether I try for 50 total reps or 100 total.

Towel pulldowns -- grab a small bath towel, stretch it across so its tight, and pull it down behind my neck. Keep the towel stretched. Whatever reps I can be ar5ed to do.

And that's upper body day!

 

[spasm]

Please explain how you lost this? What was your starting weight

started at 312 lbs. currently, at 240 lbs. it has taken just over 8 months.

main thing i did was literally stop all sugar & starch.
ate only when hungry. stopped when full. vegetables & proper whole foods.

 

[dawaxman]

I just ordered a bike, wil start cycling to work and out with the girlfriend and her little girl

Careful when commuting, you have to ride very differently to how you'd drive....