The new, new manager thread - Pt 3

[BrainOfLevy]

Gaaaaah I forgot about Lamela in that summing up of our players who should thrive under Poch. He'd surely have a big chance to do well.

 

[africanspurs]

Season is over, optimism has returned. The clouds have lifted. I always liked AVB, I wasn't so against Sherwood but can see he wasn't the right man for the club. I'm kind of back on the Levy train again although I think he has done very well to dodge the questioning on appointing AVB (which most people are willing to give a pass on, but whatever).

But from the candidates out there I think Poch would be really good for us. Don't know enough about FDB and Benitez I don't think is the right strategic choice. Poch ticks a lot of boxes.

i would agree with all that...except after a season and a bit i knew i didnt like AVB for sure...and i was always supportive of Green Mile Sherwood

 

[scaramanga]

Even if it was or it wasnt, i still think its a bit baseless and a tad condescending to those that dont want what they may construe to be a fancy foreign name for the sake of it
cause lets face it...your on one side of the fence for this kind of topic and i think i fall on the other side...i think once people are faced with continental possibilities then they dream of something exotic, overly complicated that goes beyond their grasp and manifests into beautiful / technical football,

I don't think I'm on one side of the fence at all. I just want a talented, intelligent manager that understands the modern game.

If there were any English ones of them around I'd be as happy with them as I would a foreign one. The vast majority of football chairmen seem to agree with my conclusion that there aren't any English ones around.

there is something about it that sounds elitist and holier than thou and sort of assumes the average english fan is not up to the current times etc that i dont like

The average English fan isn't up to the current times. The average English fan is struggling to get to a triple digit IQ. That is changing, and we're better at Spurs than most, but it's changing slowly.

and quite frankly , Jol aside..i havent been too impressed with continental options that have not cut their teeth in this league before hand....system in their right coat pocket or not

I haven't been at all impressed with English managers. All that shows is that the vast majority of managers fail. And that being English is far less important than being good at your job.

 

[africanspurs]

Gaaaaah I forgot about Lamela in that summing up of our players who should thrive under Poch. He'd surely have a big chance to do well.

i actually think thats the main reason Pochettino is going to get hired if he wants the job

there is 60 million odd worth of unrealised commodity/potential sitting in the dressing room and i think the hope would be that the next guy in charge would be the one to bring that out to pasture

 

[scaramanga]

is it a plus or a minus that he uses the big squad or stick with his best 11 week in week out?

If it's not paired with excellent fitness work and a very strict regime it's a big minus.

 

[africanspurs]

I don't think I'm on one side of the fence at all. I just want a talented, intelligent manager that understands the modern game.

If there were any English ones of them around I'd be as happy with them as I would a foreign one. The vast majority of football chairmen seem to agree with my conclusion that there aren't any English ones around.



The average English fan isn't up to the current times. The average English fan is struggling to get to a triple digit IQ. That is changing, and we're better at Spurs than most, but it's changing slowly.



I haven't been at all impressed with English managers. All that shows is that the vast majority of managers fail. And that being English is far less important than being good at your job.

Dude , you are soooooo on one side of the fence you probably cant even see the fence anymore:lol:

 

[braineclipse]

Pochs saints team also tailed off 2nd half of season much like under harrys tenure - his style of football will cause team to tire and we will probably end up missing top 4 again. Also - pochs saints team have been awful in the cup games and his suffered a few mini-bashings from the top sides too. Im just not fully sold on yet...

To add to NWND's post:

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2013-2014/custom-table

Southampton picked up an average of 1.47 points per game in total this season. Since January 1st they've picked up 1.53 ppg. Since March 1st they've picked up 1.55 ppg.

Agree with Rossi that the so called mini-bashings from the top teams is to be expected.

In the FA-cup they lost 1-0 away to Sunderland (under Poyet) after beating Burnley and Yeovil at home. In the League-cup they also lost away to Sunderland, 2-1 this time (also under Poyet) after beating Barnsley away and Bristol City at home. In previous rounds. to me "awful in the cup games" doesn't really.

I didn't watch any of their games, but results wise at least those aren't exactly big upsets.

 

[braineclipse]

No manager has stayed longer than 4 seasons under Levy. How can we have stability if our Chairman keeps wielding his axe and not giving them time to put things right. I question Levy's decision to let AVB go to be frank. He wasn't as bad as some of us are making him out to be. AVB is 3rd in the top 20 managers of the club's history with a 55% win record with Frank Brettell and Arthur Turner coming 1st and 2nd respectively.

Can we please not have another AVB discussion, at least not here?

You made a claim, NWND showed examples where what you claimed clearly wasn't true and bam, we're on to the AVB sacking again...

 

[braineclipse]

Even if it was or it wasnt, i still think its a bit baseless and a tad condescending to those that dont want what they may construe to be a fancy foreign name for the sake of it
cause lets face it...your on one side of the fence for this kind of topic and i think i fall on the other side...i think once people are faced with continental possibilities then they dream of something exotic, overly complicated that goes beyond their grasp and manifests into beautiful / technical football,

there is something about it that sounds elitist and holier than thou and sort of assumes the average english fan is not up to the current times etc that i dont like

and quite frankly , Jol aside..i havent been too impressed with continental options that have not cut their teeth in this league before hand....system in their right coat pocket or not

If the people that are comparing Poch to AVB would offer their reasons why they think that's a fair comparison and why we should be more worried about Poch being "another AVB" than other options as they have been asked then people wouldn't condescendingly speculate about their reasoning for saying it.

I do "dream" of something that goes beyond my grasp by the way. If the manager/head coach we hire doesn't know an absolute ****ton of stuff about management/head coaching that is beyond my grasp we're making a mistake.

 

[SpursNorway]

is it a plus or a minus that he uses the big squad or stick with his best 11 week in week out?

As a manager you should have the qualities to see what energy level every players is at - week in, week out. Of course you know what 11 you would prefer in most of the matches, but you have to use more than 12-13 during a long season with three domestic competitions, Europe, a lot of players playing for their countries. Then you make your decision based on what you see and what your players tell you. I'm not a fan of rotation just for the sake of it, but to change 2-4 players when matches comes up thick and fast, is essential imo.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think the only thing people can say is a legitimate similarity is that they will both be 'system managers', and they will perceive as stubbornness the desire to make that system work (for the long term greater good) rather than making adjustments to placate a whole load of people in the boardroom/squad.

I think we really should all get on board with the system the next manager employs, as long as it is in some way fast paced and attacking so nobody can moan about it on that score. The alternative is what we've seen this season since December, which focussed purely on results but actually looked like an unstructured mess with no real plan.

 

[DHSF]

Im excited by Poch although would have been far more excited and happier with FdB but if its Poch I will support of course. I havent seen Southampton much but of course the two games I focused on they lost 3-2 to us on both occasions where they had lead on both occasions.

He has a wealth of talent at his disposal at spurs but we will definitely need some strengthening particularly in defence and on the wings in my view but that could be funded by selling the likes of Sig et al

 

[Baleforce]

the more I think about it the more I don't care, I have no faith in Enic providing the right tools for the job, I think we're ****ed

 

[africanspurs]

As a manager you should have the qualities to see what energy level every players is at - week in, week out. Of course you know what 11 you would prefer in most of the matches, but you have to use more than 12-13 during a long season with three domestic competitions, Europe, a lot of players playing for their countries. Then you make your decision based on what you see and what your players tell you. I'm not a fan of rotation just for the sake of it, but to change 2-4 players when matches comes up thick and fast, is essential imo.

thats fair enough, cant argue with that...

but then what that looks like is that so this isnt a big squad thing..its a fitness one. which then begs the question...

would you be happy if there was minimal rotation but optimum fitness in the starting 11? If you are okay with the latter then maybe the squad management isnt as big a factor or concern for you?

 

[africanspurs]

the more I think about it the more I don't care, I have no faith in Enic providing the right tools for the job, I think we're ****ed

:ross:

 

[africanspurs]

I think the only thing people can say is a legitimate similarity is that they will both be 'system managers', and they will perceive as stubbornness the desire to make that system work (for the long term greater good) rather than making adjustments to placate a whole load of people in the boardroom/squad.

I think we really should all get on board with the system the next manager employs, as long as it is in some way fast paced and attacking so nobody can moan about it on that score. The alternative is what we've seen this season since December, which focussed purely on results but actually looked like an unstructured mess with no real plan.

this is a phrase now?

 

[billyiddo]

the more I think about it the more I don't care, I have no faith in Enic providing the right tools for the job, I think we're ****ed

What makes you say that? I think we've had two genuine top 4 calibre squads under Enic (Jol and early Redknapp) and a squad capable of an outside title push in 11/12 - we've put 100m+ In to the current squad - what makes you think we're uncapable of providing the coach with the required tools?

 

[jaydon]

Benitez is the man, wins trophies everywhere he goes pretty much. Pochettino, is he that good or does he just have very good players out Southampton?

 

[Jordinho]

Well recently enough I had the privileged to watch the Ajax academy kids in action over a number of days. Very very impressive I have to say, and though I do accept this was not the senior team their system of play runs through the entire club. To describe it would take a while, andI'm probably not eloquent enough to do it justice but I guess the easy thing to say is that it's a variation on what you see Barca doing. In some ways it's this system that has swayed me to the FdB camp rather than the man himself. System is probably an over used word in the attempt to describe how a team plays. I prefer to break down what I see into repeated patterns that are triggered by certain events on the pitch. This to me is the sign of a well drilled team, and this team youth team was certainly well drilled but not to the point it stifled the individual talent on show either. After the laissez faire approach of Sherwood and the uber restrictive approach of AVB I'd take a bit of this now.

I'm not against Poch either BTW, just prefer FdB.

What I consider an important part of a system is the movement of players. When player A has the ball, B, C and D make certain runs. You should always have at least 2 or 3 options for a pass and it helps no end knowing where to look for them. This is especially important when playing out from the back and everyone is in their default defensive position. Anyone that's just standing around watching can the get the **** out. This makes rotation more seamless a everyone (in theory) should know what to do. You don't teach every role to everyone, but different midfield positions have different tasks and so on.

 

[SUIYHA]

Talking about managers having a "system" is so cliche. Like any British manager is only going to stick their best players on the pitch and hope for success. All managers have their preferred styles, formations and tactics, but when it's a fancy continental manager it's called a "system".

As far as "systems" go, I'm more than happy for a manager to have a philosophy and to implement their preferred ideas into the squad. On the STRICT CONDITION that we only use it when the correct personnel are available to make it work. For example, if we are to play 4-2-3-1 with a high line, like AVB did, then that's fine, as long as we have a proper number 10, a striker who can hold up the ball, at least one deep midfielder who can pass the ball, and fast defenders. If, like AVB did, we are to play Paulinho in the number 10 role, Dawson and Capoue at CB, and Sandro and Dembele in central midfield, all in the name of the "system", then give me Four Four Facking Two any day of the week because we won't be able to keep possession or create chances and we'll get torn to pieces by high balls over the top to fast attackers.

Getting the right people on the pitch at the right time is always more important. You can call that a "system", or you can call it common sense. Chopping and changing things around every week means there's a lack of consistency, but whoever the new guy is, I hope he has the brains to analyse who is available in our match day squad, who we're playing, and pick the team accordingly, not just picking the same XI that won the previous week against a completely different side with a different formation and different strengths and weaknesses, or shoe-horning players into the wrong positions just to continue playing the same "system", despite the player being completely unsuited to play there.