Taking stock: are we heading for another Chelski style car-crash ?

[thfcsteff]

I think a lot of managers who regard themselves as tactical do this. The worst I've seen for doing this was definitely Mancini at City. The Italians have been doing this for years obviously, and Arsenal had great success doing this under George Graham. Mourinho's successful Chelsea teams also used to shut up shop, and I don't doubt this is where AVB gets the notion from.



I think his transfer was brought forward simply to add squad depth, and also to allow AVB to try and implement the system he wants to play. Remember AVB almost certainly wants to implement a 4-3-3/4-5-1 strategy. Last season we often employed a 4-4-1-1 strategy and Holtby's purchase was almost certainly designed to allow us to go to a 5 man midfield. Holtby is also very versatile, and AVB clearly loves versatile players.



That Arsenal game was a great experience for us, but it was nowhere near their strongest team (but nor was it as weak as their fans liked to make out).

As for Ramos vs AVB? The main similarity is that both of them will play players out of position to fit them into their system. Both also like their full backs to provide most of the width. The difference is, at least at Spurs, Ramos's teams were far more gung ho on the counter attack, and the plan was clearly to get the ball forward as fast as possible without resorting to hoofing it. AVB's teams are more solid and cautious.

It is AVB's enduring wish and work to have a squad where players can play several positions without breaking a sweat. He's getting closer and closer all the time.

 

[braineclipse]

Dembele, Dawson and Sig to me were the most knackered and the principal reasons we never got going.

However, both you and onlyme now seem to concede that the Anji game MIGHT have been one of the reasons for our dismal display against Wet Spam. The difference between us is a matter of degree. I believe it was a MAJOR reason for our limp display, you both appear to believe that it wasn't a major factor.

What is clear is that we MUST be better prepared for these "small games" in future as it is the results in these games which will largely determine whether we make the top four at the end of the season. Any lack of appropriate preparation is not acceptable.

I've argued that the European hangover effect is real for as long as I've been on this forum mate.

 

[Pirate55]

I've argued that the European hangover effect is real for as long as I've been on this forum mate.

Then why don't you think it was a major factor in our display against West Ham?

 

[braineclipse]

Then why don't you think it was a major factor in our display against West Ham?

Because I haven't seen a convincing reason to think that.

Partly because I think despite the influence of a European hangover effect a team like ours should perform better than we did against West Ham, because of that I think there were other factors at play.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Dembele, Dawson and Sig to me were the most knackered and the principal reasons we never got going.

However, both you and onlyme now seem to concede that the Anji game MIGHT have been one of the reasons for our dismal display against Wet Spam. The difference between us is a matter of degree. I believe it was a MAJOR reason for our limp display, you both appear to believe that it wasn't a major factor.

What is clear is that we MUST be better prepared for these "small games" in future as it is the results in these games which will largely determine whether we make the top four at the end of the season. Any lack of appropriate preparation is not acceptable.

Dunno if it's true, but I remember on Soccer Saturday Jeff Stelling read a quote from AVB which said "we will prepare for West Ham on the day of the game."

 

[Pirate55]

Because I haven't seen a convincing reason to think that

Partly because I think despite the influence of a European hangover effect a team like ours should perform better than we did against West Ham, because of that I think there were other factors at play.

Then why do you say that the European game hangover effect is very real? What "convincing reason" do you need?

 

[braineclipse]

Then why do you say that the European game hangover effect is very real? What "convincing reason" do you need?

It seems everything is so polarized with you. Please understand that there are gradients and degrees of opinions and that not everything has to be a dichotomy between with us or against us.

Is it difficult to understand that I could think that something is a real effect without being convinced that it was a major effect in that specific game?

Something can have an effect on those games that follow European games without being the main influencing factor in the outcome of all those games.

Correlation does not equal causation.

I don't know how to make this any clearer.

 

[Pirate55]

Understood. But you should not therefore take me to task if in my opinion it was the major over riding factor.

Now perhaps you would like to give me your considered opinion on Jeremiah Hackett's treatise on Bacon's "Rhetoric and Poetics"? Semantics seem to be your preferred topic!

 

[Pirate55]

Dunno if it's true, but I remember on Soccer Saturday Jeff Stelling read a quote from AVB which said "we will prepare for West Ham on the day of the game."

IF true, then truly shocking. How can one successfully prepare for a game just on the day of a game. For this reason, I doubt it is true, but would explain a lot given the squad taken to Angy!

 

[braineclipse]

Understood. But you should not therefore take me to task if in my opinion it was the major over riding factor.

Now perhaps you would like to give me your considered opinion on Jeremiah Hackett's treatise on Bacon's "Rhetoric and Poetics"? Semantics seem to be your preferred topic!

Do you honestly feel that I have "taken you to task"?

I do like when there is a clarity and precision when communicating. To me, if there isn't clarity in what is being communicated from one person to another the value of that communication is almost always diminished. I don't think semantics for the sake of semantics is particularly interesting, more of a necessity if actual communication is to take place. If what you mean by a phrase is different to what I interpret by it then no real communication of ideas has taken place and we might as well all just go shout our opinions down a well.

 

[Pirate55]

I agree on that last statement, obviously.

But sometimes you appear to be a contrarian just for the sake of a good argument!

 

[braineclipse]

I agree on that last statement, obviously.

But sometimes you appear to be a contrarian just for the sake of a good argument!

I'm more of an opinionated bastard than a contrarian to be honest. I will only be a contrarian if I feel there are good reasons to support that side of the argument and no one are presenting them, usually I will state that this is not entirely my opinion if I do so.

Although I'm also a bit pendantic

 

[Pirate55]

I'm more of an opinionated bastard than a contrarian to be honest. I will only be a contrarian if I feel there are good reasons to support that side of the argument and no one are presenting them, usually I will state that this is not entirely my opinion if I do so.

Although I'm also a bit pendantic

Me too!

 

[onlyme]

Understood. But you should not therefore take me to task if in my opinion it was the major over riding factor.

Now perhaps you would like to give me your considered opinion on Jeremiah Hackett's treatise on Bacon's "Rhetoric and Poetics"? Semantics seem to be your preferred topic!

I've been dying for someone to give their opinion on that here.

 

[onlyme]

I'm more of an opinionated bastard than a contrarian to be honest. I will only be a contrarian if I feel there are good reasons to support that side of the argument and no one are presenting them, usually I will state that this is not entirely my opinion if I do so.

Although I'm also a bit pendantic

A bit? I would have said a little.

 

[Yermiyahu]

Understood. But you should not therefore take me to task if in my opinion it was the major over riding factor.

Now perhaps you would like to give me your considered opinion on Jeremiah Hackett's treatise on Bacon's "Rhetoric and Poetics"? Semantics seem to be your preferred topic!

Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle.

 

[spasm]

Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle.

racist!!

 

[DubaiSpur]

I'm going to take the simple way out here.

'Oh, for a Roy Keane!'

Honestly, we need one, to kick some serious **** when the players lose their heads and play like tranquilized giraffes, as seems to happen every so often. Other than that, most of what I wanted to say has been put here by others, often far more eloquently than I could have put it.

 

[Pirate55]

A bit? I would have said a little.

What is the difference between "a bit" and "a little" ?

Pedant!!!!!!

 

[glorygloryeze]

So erm...anyone think we're NOT heading for said car-crash - assuming AVB stays in the job??