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Summer Transfer Strategy

Finney Is Back said:
Rose was never terrible, the reaction from some of our fans to him signing the extension was bad simply because many football fans haven't actually got a Scooby about football. They see the opposition sometimes troubling us down our left hand side and wrongly assume that it must be simply because Rose is rubbish.

Rose had some excellent performances at LB under Redknapp showing that he had the right attributes to play there. He then went on loan and did very well at Sunderland. Under Sherwood he again played very well indeed at left - although some fans couldn't see it and wanted him out of the club.

Some of our fans think the transformation in Rose this season has come because of Pochettino's coaching. While I think Pochettino has improved him a little I think the transformation is actually down to the fact that he actually now gets support from his teammates. Last season with Chadli playing left sided attacking midfield and having little inclination to track the runs of the opposition's right back meant that teams would often look to double and treble up over that side. This often left Rose with more than one player to pick up and there is probably not a player in the PL who is good enough to consistently defend when outnumbered. This is in stark contrast to this season where Eriksen has covered a huge amount of ground to ensure that he always tracks the opponents right back. Rose has also had the benefit of Dier slotting in to become a third centre half and Vertonghen fanning out to help him when the opposition turn over the ball this season, not to mention Dembele also being stronger defensively than Mason.
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Rose was part of one of the worst defenses I have ever seen at Spurs, Rose left & Naughton right, I remember despairing at seeing those two names on the team sheet at same time.

Yes, part of it was tactics (suicidal and out of position FBs), but a big part was Rose, he was clumsy (over eager, very similar to early Lamela) in tackles, gave away too many free kicks, looked like a red card waiting to happen.

Poch has significantly improved his mental part of the game (decisions, temperament, positioning) and while I agree Dier and other tactics have helped all the back 4, Rose for England today still looks a quality LB, 3 years ago, don't think anyone would have seen that.
 
Raziel said:
Rose was part of one of the worst defenses I have ever seen at Spurs, Rose left & Naughton right, I remember despairing at seeing those two names on the team sheet at same time.

Yes, part of it was tactics (suicidal and out of position FBs), but a big part was Rose, he was clumsy (over eager, very similar to early Lamela) in tackles, gave away too many free kicks, looked like a red card waiting to happen.

Poch has significantly improved his mental part of the game (decisions, temperament, positioning) and while I agree Dier and other tactics have helped all the back 4, Rose for England today still looks a quality LB, 3 years ago, don't think anyone would have seen that.
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How many red cards did he actually receive? If I remember correctly it was just the one (that was actually a fantastic Ledley King'esque tackle that was wrongly awarded as a penalty, with the red card and suspension rescinded after the game)

Who were the centre halves? Who was the holding midfield player? How well were the forwards and midfield pressing?

By your statement above I assume that Hugo Lloris was also part of one of the worst defences you have ever seen at Spurs?.... Was Lloris also fudging terrible? Or just exposed by poor players or organisation around him?

If you go back on the Danny Rose thread there were certain people (i.e. me) stating that they expected Rose to play for England within a few years. It was quite easy to see that he was a good player, just left helpless by poor tactics and shape.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think Wanyama signing means that Mason will be pushed forward into that role. Like he did very well a few times last season (Everton and Sunderland maybe).

He's more like-for-like with Alli than anyone we have, and also has that chemistry with Kane from academy days (though I appreciate they were an age group apart and Mason partnered Obika more)
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I have always said Mason looks a better player when played as an AM
 
Finney Is Back said:
How many red cards did he actually receive? If I remember correctly it was just the one (that was actually a fantastic Ledley King'esque tackle that was wrongly awarded as a penalty, with the red card and suspension rescinded after the game)

Who were the centre halves? Who was the holding midfield player? How well were the forwards and midfield pressing?

By your statement above I assume that Hugo Lloris was also part of one of the worst defences you have ever seen at Spurs?.... Was Lloris also fudging terrible? Or just exposed by poor players or organisation around him?

If you go back on the Danny Rose thread there were certain people (i.e. me) stating that they expected Rose to play for England within a few years. It was quite easy to see that he was a good player, just left helpless by poor tactics and shape.
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I am with you there. I saw how impressive he was while on loan at Sunderland and I was always behind him when he was getting a lot of abuse on this forum.
 
Finney Is Back said:
How many red cards did he actually receive? If I remember correctly it was just the one (that was actually a fantastic Ledley King'esque tackle that was wrongly awarded as a penalty, with the red card and suspension rescinded after the game)

Who were the centre halves? Who was the holding midfield player? How well were the forwards and midfield pressing?

By your statement above I assume that Hugo Lloris was also part of one of the worst defences you have ever seen at Spurs?.... Was Lloris also fudging terrible? Or just exposed by poor players or organisation around him?

If you go back on the Danny Rose thread there were certain people (i.e. me) stating that they expected Rose to play for England within a few years. It was quite easy to see that he was a good player, just left helpless by poor tactics and shape.
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If you saw the player Danny is today, 3 years ago, very well done to you. I saw a player with ill temperament who had a very uncertain future and well done to him and everyone who helped in getting him to pull it all together.

Yes, Lloris was part of a poor defense, the numbers of goals conceded back that up (IIRC we conceded more goals than anyone who wasn't relegated, or something close to that)
 
Raziel said:
If you saw the player Danny is today, 3 years ago, very well done to you. I saw a player with ill temperament who had a very uncertain future and well done to him and everyone who helped in getting him to pull it all together.

Yes, Lloris was part of a poor defense, the numbers of goals conceded back that up (IIRC we conceded more goals than anyone who wasn't relegated, or something close to that)
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Rose had some aggression but hardly showed I'll temperament

People point to the villa away red card as an example whilst ignoring the many others games where he was fine and developing

It reminds me of Ghaly getting slated for throwing they shirt away in the same manner that Robbie Keane had done. Keane had shown passion yet Ghaly had shown a bad move... The same player who lost his teeth fighting to win a ball for us!!!
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Rose had some aggression but hardly showed I'll temperament

People point to the villa away red card as an example whilst ignoring the many others games where he was fine and developing

It reminds me of Ghaly getting slated for throwing they shirt away in the same manner that Robbie Keane had done. Keane had shown passion yet Ghaly had shown a bad move... The same player who lost his teeth fighting to win a ball for us!!!
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Mate, I love Danny Rose's attitude, but two/three years ago (in my opinion), it seemed barely under control, today it is passion/fight (because you know he has it managed). Just my opinion, he's much better player, much better mentally today that 3 years ago (hence a lot of folks have had him as most improved).

If you think the guy is the same as he was, just tactics, great ... we agree to disagree ..
 
Raziel said:
Mate, I love Danny Rose's attitude, but two/three years ago (in my opinion), it seemed barely under control, today it is passion/fight (because you know he has it managed). Just my opinion, he's much better player, much better mentally today that 3 years ago (hence a lot of folks have had him as most improved).

If you think the guy is the same as he was, just tactics, great ... we agree to disagree ..
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he is a much better player and he has improved but personally I thought he was a very solid prospect back then. Mainly off the back of seeing him in a toss Sunderland team. But the whole team is better and more balanced which helps his game

I also thought Mahrez would be great for us having seen him come in against us last season (2015) and tear us apart

But I have been wrong too plenty of times
 
Is there any reason for keeping this thread open or should we lock it or merge it will the general/transfer rumours thread?
 
Gutter Boy said:
Is there much scope for the former now it looks like we've essentially finished our business (bar a handful of outgoings)?
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do we know that? to me the window goals should be 4 things

- Address gaping holes, needs based on last season (assuming we all agree last season we had a very good first 11, with poor depth specifically in Striker & DM positions) = done
- Improve general squad depth, provide a slightly different bench option, more directness? = GKN
- Sell, loan, unload unsuitable players, and/or players that need to move on for their own development = outstanding, but likely to happen
- If possible, find target that immediately improves first 11 = not yet?

I'm really hoping Levy/Poch are looking for someone that walks into first 11, we might not get that person, or may not be able to attract/afford, but it has to be something we are going for.
 
Raziel said:
do we know that? to me the window goals should be 4 things

- Address gaping holes, needs based on last season (assuming we all agree last season we had a very good first 11, with poor depth specifically in Striker & DM positions) = done
- Improve general squad depth, provide a slightly different bench option, more directness? = GKN
- Sell, loan, unload unsuitable players, and/or players that need to move on for their own development = outstanding, but likely to happen
- If possible, find target that immediately improves first 11 = not yet?

I'm really hoping Levy/Poch are looking for someone that walks into first 11, we might not get that person, or may not be able to attract/afford, but it has to be something we are going for.
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I'm not sure that's how we operate any more. I think from now on new first 11 players will emerge from academy or squad, like Kane, Alli and Dier have done. It will just be about the production line.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm not sure that's how we operate any more. I think from now on new first 11 players will emerge from academy or squad, like Kane, Alli and Dier have done. It will just be about the production line.
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Disagree - if a player who can clearly slot into the 1st eleven is available, as attributes that are not neccesarily there in the academy/squad and is at a decent price i think we will pounce (a la Toby, Son, Wanyama).
 
glorygloryeze said:
Disagree - if a player who can clearly slot into the 1st eleven is available, as attributes that are not neccesarily there in the academy/squad and is at a decent price i think we will pounce (a la Toby, Son, Wanyama).
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My question is slightly different ..

Will we, as a one off (not business as usual which a mix of your statement & GB's), go after another VDV/Klinsmann/big name if available, and at what price ceiling?
 
Raziel said:
My question is slightly different ..

Will we, as a one off (not business as usual which a mix of your statement & GB's), go after another VDV/Klinsmann/big name if available, and at what price ceiling?
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It wouldn't surprise me - but only if the following is true:

1) they are a player who has worked well within a 'pressing' type of system
2) the transfer fee is very competitive (i.e. 15M or less)
3) they are on reasonable wages (no more than 45k/week)

Give the above criteria is it likely? Probably not....
 
For the first time in a long time, I really don't care for Spurs to make anymore signings. Of course, if an incredible player/deal pops up, we do it, but I think our squad is really well balanced, and I don't want us to bring in too many new players to potentially block our young players' development. The only place I could see us strengthening is that fourth CB role with maybe a young player or a 30+ veteran. Then again, if we have an injury crisis, Dier could always move back to CB with Wanyama coming into the DM role. I haven't seen enough of CCV to know how close he is to first team contention, but he's obviously really highly rated.

There really isn't a player in either our first or second XI that I don't feel good about or doesn't have potential. Sure, some of the attacking midfield options are unproven, but the only way they are going to become proven is to get on the pitch. Sonny showed enough last season to make me believe that he'll only get better, and hopefully Njie or Pritchard can make a jump too.

I could see us selling or loaning two or three, but it would nice to have another summer without too much turnover where we continue to steadily build toward the future. Probably haven't been this excited about our squad ever in my life. COYS.

--------------------------Lloris (29)
---------------------(Vorm 32/Mcgee 21)

Walker (26)--- ------Toby (27) / Vertonghen (29) --------------Rose 26
(Trippier 25)-------(Wimmer 23) / (CCV 18/Dier 22)------(Davies 23)

Dembele (29)--------Dier (22)
(Bentaleb 21/Mason 25)---(Wanyama 25)

Lamela (24)----------------------Alli (20)----------------Eriksen (24)
(Ndoukou, 21/Pritch, 22)- ---(Sonny 24)----------(Njie, 22/Chadli 26)

------------------Kane (22)-------------------
(Janssen) (22)

Other squad members/young players who could maybe get games: Carroll, Onomah, Dominic Ball, KWP, Winks, Edwards, CCV, Sterling, Harrison
 
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