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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

MartyFunkhouser said:
Thats literally the point being made nearly every day.

No one is more outraged when a white person commits a crime, the reason its highlighted is because there has been a theme of bigotry on here and people, including myself, highlight evil existing everywhere. The difference is, I am not attacked for being white or my culture when a crime by a white person happens, others are when its a different ethnicity.

There is alot of p1ss taking with posts like "must be their culture" but thats off the back of the above and seems the most civil way of dealing with the balance at times

Every rational person here knows and acknowledges crime and horrific acts happening everywhere. Unless someone can point out someone or somewhere its said differently
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As I said in my previous post, we should all condemn these crimes regardless of who commits them. Equally, I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that some cultures marginalise women or tolerate attitudes that lead to their mistreatment. Recognising that isn't the same as claiming we're doing everything right here. Abuse and violence against women happen everywhere, including in the UK, and we still have a great deal of work to do.

What I've noticed, though, is an asymmetry in the response depending on who the perpetrator is. I see the same pattern in the politics thread: when Labour drops the ball, it's often barely acknowledged or quickly downplayed, whereas scandals involving the Conservatives or Reform tend to attract much more attention.

I completely understand the frustration when prejudice against particular races or religions is dressed up as concern or outrage. That absolutely should be challenged. At the same time, I find the selective outrage and point-scoring over these issues rather distasteful. If we're going to condemn abuse, violence or wrongdoing, we should do so consistently, regardless of who committed it or who it reflects badly on.
 
Jurgen the German said:
As I said in my previous post, we should all condemn these crimes regardless of who commits them. Equally, I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that some cultures marginalise women or tolerate attitudes that lead to their mistreatment. Recognising that isn't the same as claiming we're doing everything right here. Abuse and violence against women happen everywhere, including in the UK, and we still have a great deal of work to do.

What I've noticed, though, is an asymmetry in the response depending on who the perpetrator is. I see the same pattern in the politics thread: when Labour drops the ball, it's often barely acknowledged or quickly downplayed, whereas scandals involving the Conservatives or Reform tend to attract much more attention.

I completely understand the frustration when prejudice against particular races or religions is dressed up as concern or outrage. That absolutely should be challenged. At the same time, I find the selective outrage and point-scoring over these issues rather distasteful. If we're going to condemn abuse, violence or wrongdoing, we should do so consistently, regardless of who committed it or who it reflects badly on.
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There are more people who support Labour or are to the left on this forum. That’s really the explanation.
 
Jurgen the German said:
As I said in my previous post, we should all condemn these crimes regardless of who commits them. Equally, I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that some cultures marginalise women or tolerate attitudes that lead to their mistreatment. Recognising that isn't the same as claiming we're doing everything right here. Abuse and violence against women happen everywhere, including in the UK, and we still have a great deal of work to do.

What I've noticed, though, is an asymmetry in the response depending on who the perpetrator is. I see the same pattern in the politics thread: when Labour drops the ball, it's often barely acknowledged or quickly downplayed, whereas scandals involving the Conservatives or Reform tend to attract much more attention.

I completely understand the frustration when prejudice against particular races or religions is dressed up as concern or outrage. That absolutely should be challenged. At the same time, I find the selective outrage and point-scoring over these issues rather distasteful. If we're going to condemn abuse, violence or wrongdoing, we should do so consistently, regardless of who committed it or who it reflects badly on.
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I'm pretty certain Angela Rayner and Kier Starmer were both condemned in the Politics thread.
Which Labour abuse, violence or wrongdoing did you call out that was downplayed?
 
Jurgen the German said:
As I said in my previous post, we should all condemn these crimes regardless of who commits them. Equally, I don't think it's wrong to acknowledge that some cultures marginalise women or tolerate attitudes that lead to their mistreatment. Recognising that isn't the same as claiming we're doing everything right here. Abuse and violence against women happen everywhere, including in the UK, and we still have a great deal of work to do.
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But thats what people here do IMO.

With the rest, I agree to an extent, but on the flip I think its rich of people to condemn only one portion of society when it happens all around us. We have a responsibility to call it out everywhere it appears, not live in glass houses where we pretend it doesn't happen within our own culture. Thats why I can't stand the hypocrisy of people like two foot Tommy who hasn't (from what I can gather) called it out within his fairly close political circle of the EDL, of which he was a member. Thats a lack of balance, not people on a forum saying evil appears everywhere
Jurgen the German said:
What I've noticed, though, is an asymmetry in the response depending on who the perpetrator is. I see the same pattern in the politics thread: when Labour drops the ball, it's often barely acknowledged or quickly downplayed, whereas scandals involving the Conservatives or Reform tend to attract much more attention.
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Thats not really true, Starmer, RR and Rayner have been getting pelters all over the shop. Its hard not to speak at length about Farage and Reform given the current landscape, thats only natural. Its also not really anyone fault that they have picked up so many scumbags in their ranks who have been outed and sacked. If thay cant be condemned or mentioned then its a sad reflection on society. But to repeat, Labour have been a sh1tshow, not sure there is anyone on here that says otherwise
Jurgen the German said:
I completely understand the frustration when prejudice against particular races or religions is dressed up as concern or outrage. That absolutely should be challenged. At the same time, I find the selective outrage and point-scoring over these issues rather distasteful. If we're going to condemn abuse, violence or wrongdoing, we should do so consistently, regardless of who committed it or who it reflects badly on.
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Again, thats what most do.......

In fairness, and in terms of balance of views and tolerance, when there was a recent issue on another thread and something was said, its those that get labelled on here for being unbalanced who jumped that that persons defence and called for a second chance. I think there is alot of generalisations made on here about what tone is on these threads without actually getting into the nuts and bolts of whats being actually said.

There was a time recently when someone claimed there was bullying on the politics thread, but there was no such outrage or calling out when people came on here with several proxy accounts and were passing around racial and bigoted slurs.....so when people talk about the lack of balance, I do find it slightly rich given the history of people like Danish etc on here.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
Everything I post is to ultimately get to the point that it isn't about race or culture. I say flippant things but I do not think English culture or white people are worse or better than anyone else. I don't dislike diversity. If it came across like I did then I'm sorry.

I think all people should be afforded the same caution, based on what they say and do. Not based on where they are from and what skin colour they are.

Either way, this is a welcome post my friend. Thank you
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Thanks, Luton. And there's no need to apologise.

I can't put myself in your shoes, but I can imagine it must be exhausting when discussions about violence against women end up revolving around race or religion, particularly when the primary concern doesn't seem to be the safety of women but rather using these crimes as a vehicle to attack a particular group of people.

I think we've come a long way in terms of women's rights, and that's worth acknowledging. At the same time, there's clearly still a great deal of work to do.

I also don't think any individual should be expected to shoulder responsibility for the actions of an entire race, religion or community. It frustrates me when that happens to white people, and it's just as unfair when it's directed at any other race or religion. People should be judged by their own actions, not by those of others who happen to share a similar background.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
But thats what people here do IMO.

With the rest, I agree to an extent, but on the flip I think its rich of people to condemn only one portion of society when it happens all around us. We have a responsibility to call it out everywhere it appears, not live in glass houses where we pretend it doesn't happen within our own culture. Thats why I can't stand the hypocrisy of people like two foot Tommy who hasn't (from what I can gather) called it out within his fairly close political circle of the EDL, of which he was a member. Thats a lack of balance, not people on a forum saying evil appears everywhere

Thats not really true, Starmer, RR and Rayner have been getting pelters all over the shop. Its hard not to speak at length about Farage and Reform given the current landscape, thats only natural. Its also not really anyone fault that they have picked up so many scumbags in their ranks who have been outed and sacked. If thay cant be condemned or mentioned then its a sad reflection on society. But to repeat, Labour have been a sh1tshow, not sure there is anyone on here that says otherwise

Again, thats what most do.......

In fairness, and in terms of balance of views and tolerance, when there was a recent issue on another thread and something was said, its those that get labelled on here for being unbalanced who jumped that that persons defence and called for a second chance. I think there is alot of generalisations made on here about what tone is on these threads without actually getting into the nuts and bolts of whats being actually said.

There was a time recently when someone claimed there was bullying on the politics thread, but there was no such outrage or calling out when people came on here with several proxy accounts and were passing around racial and bigoted slurs.....so when people talk about the lack of balance, I do find it slightly rich given the history of people like Danish etc on here.
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I'd have to disagree, mate. I don't read every page of the politics thread, but I don't see equal condemnation from both sides—or at least not enough of it.

I completely accept that some criticism crosses the line into unfair territory, and I know not everything in life is going to be perfectly balanced. But I still don't see the value in comments from either side along the lines of, "It must be their culture." That kind of generalisation doesn't really help anything.

Maybe I missed some of it, but I skimmed the politics thread when Rayner and Starmer made some pretty significant faux pas, and the general tone seemed to be that it was being blown out of proportion. That's quite different from the reaction I often see when it's politicians from other parties in the spotlight. I’m not sure there is enough viewpoint diversity in some of the threads at times.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'd have to disagree, mate. I don't read every page of the politics thread, but I don't see equal condemnation from both sides—or at least not enough of it.
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Jurgen the German said:
I completely accept that some criticism crosses the line into unfair territory, and I know not everything in life is going to be perfectly balanced. But I still don't see the value in comments from either side along the lines of, "It must be their culture." That kind of generalisation doesn't really help anything.
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Do you honestly think the "it must be theit culture" comments about white criminals is said seriously? Come on now
Jurgen the German said:
Maybe I missed some of it, but I skimmed the politics thread when Rayner and Starmer made some pretty significant faux pas, and the general tone seemed to be that it was being blown out of proportion. That's quite different from the reaction I often see when it's politicians from other parties in the spotlight. I’m not sure there is enough viewpoint diversity in some of the threads at times.
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Mate, Labour have been panned in the kasr 12 months on here and with right. Starmer has taken pelters....the consensus on Rayner was that her position was untenable.

There has been plenty of balance
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
Do you honestly think the "it must be theit culture" comments about white criminals is said seriously? Come on now

Mate, Labour have been panned in the kasr 12 months on here and with right. Starmer has taken pelters....the consensus on Rayner was that her position was untenable.

There has been plenty of balance
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But I do have to ask: what's the point of those comments? Too often it just feels like one side is making sweeping remarks about one race in response to the other side making sweeping remarks about a different race, all in the context of violence against women. It ends up becoming an argument about identity rather than the victims or the crime itself.

I'm deliberately trying not to single anyone out, partly because it's not limited to one person. Like everyone else, I have my own biases and issues I care strongly about. I just think we'd all be better served by judging individuals by their actions and condemning abuse consistently, rather than turning every case into another round of tribal point-scoring.
 
Jurgen the German said:
But I do have to ask: what's the point of those comments? Too often it just feels like one side is making sweeping remarks about one race in response to the other side making sweeping remarks about a different race, all in the context of violence against women. It ends up becoming an argument about identity rather than the victims or the crime itself.
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Well one side is using that statement to peddle their bigotry, so best to ask them. The rest of us do so mockingly as a joke so the reasoning is fairly evident. I think having seen a fair bit of racism and bigotry on this forum over the last 18 months to 2 years that mocking that train of thought....its justified

Jurgen the German said:
I'm deliberately trying not to single anyone out, partly because it's not limited to one person. Like everyone else, I have my own biases and issues I care strongly about. I just think we'd all be better served by judging individuals by their actions and condemning abuse consistently, rather than turning every case into another round of tribal point-scoring.
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I dont disagree with the overall sentiment here
 
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Jurgen the German said:
But I do have to ask: what's the point of those comments? Too often it just feels like one side is making sweeping remarks about one race in response to the other side making sweeping remarks about a different race, all in the context of violence against women. It ends up becoming an argument about identity rather than the victims or the crime itself.

I'm deliberately trying not to single anyone out, partly because it's not limited to one person. Like everyone else, I have my own biases and issues I care strongly about. I just think we'd all be better served by judging individuals by their actions and condemning abuse consistently, rather than turning every case into another round of tribal point-scoring.
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I do it the most. And it's because I've been asked point blank to condemn and explain behavior of Pakistanis and Muslims I have never met by posters on here. And this is down to my shared culture apparently.

That's what started it. And now it's a running joke.

Similar to when Marky recently said he didn't believe diversity is a strength in the UK. I'll remind him of that regularly. It's such an awful statement I don't want to let it disappear in to logs of Markys horrific posts.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Just imagine if I was to ask any Jewish poster to condemn Israel here. I'd be an anti semite.

And I love that for my Jewish brethren, that these things get seen. Not enough but still something. I'd also love to have the same grace from others. But I don't get it.
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We’re in full agreement. Jewish people aren’t responsible for the actions of the Israeli government. White people born in the 20th and 21st centuries aren’t responsible for the legacies of colonialism and slavery. Muslims aren’t responsible for the actions of terrorists when it’s committed by Islamist extemists. I’d like to hope everyone can agree on that.
 
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