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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

Lost Mango said:
And yet ethnicity is a social construct (based on cultural similarity and shared folklore/origin myths) and nation states a relatively recent economic-political construct with as much basis in reality as the stone age fairy stories that you mock.
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Largely true. But what separates ethnicity from belief is that it's an accident of birth, and therefore not a choice, like gender, sexual orientation, etc.

You can't judge people on those things unless you're a monster, like those protesting yesterday. You can judge on religion as it's a choice.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I think the met a shambles myself
The statistics around their police currently suspended says a lot…

And the easy fix would have been arrest the people who are being anti semetic in the previous rally’s (there is plenty of footage) and then the othe racists have no reason to plod into town
And also.. don’t allow band stands are stages near the memorials
That to me is easy fixes
They wouldn’t let Tommy Robinson and his mob have a stage at war memorials. And rightly so. Who why let others. It’s mental
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So much to unpick there.

Bedfordspurs said:
I think the met a shambles myself
The statistics around their police currently suspended says a lot…
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What's that got to do with policing yesterday's events?

Bedfordspurs said:
And the easy fix would have been arrest the people who are being anti semetic in the previous rally’s (there is plenty of footage
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If only it was that easy. In an event like that you can't deal with every crime. So I would have thought that the police would generally prioritize people who cause or are like to cause physical harm to themselves or others. Even after a rally police resources in London are stretched. And it's not just the police the entire criminal justice system is creaking.
Bedfordspurs said:
And also.. don’t allow band stands are stages near the memorials
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Unlikely to be something the police could prevent.
 
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yiddo37 said:
Terrible situation for the innocent being killed, as in all wars or acts of terrorism. Of course any rational person would want it to stop and make it known through protest marches, which have happened. However, there should not have been protests in the UK this weekend. 1 weekend in 52 where people who gave their lives for the freedoms we all enjoy today are remembered, thanked and respected. Protest any day this coming week if need be but have a bit more respect for those who died saving this country which most (if not all) protesters call home and have a bit more respect for this country.
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I completely understand this view. But playing devil's advocate the situation in Gaza is a live one and I guess the protestors are aiming to keep their plight in the public eye. I can see both sides here. In reality I do think some of the government rhetoric should have been to dampen the emotions rather than ramp them up.
 
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Robspur12 said:
So much to unpick there.


What's that got to do with policing yesterday's events?



If only it was that easy. In an event like that you can't deal with every crime. So I would have thought that the police would generally prioritize people who cause or are like to cause physical harm to themselves or others. Even after a rally police resources in London are stretched. And it's not just the police the entire criminal justice system is creaking.

Unlikely to be something the police could prevent.
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I mean previous to yesterday they would have grown a pair and started arresting people for causing. Antisemitism is racism I believe and people should be protected by our police

That may (I doubt it) have stopped the hooligans rocking up. They didn’t turn up last year and cause agro but they did this year because they had a “reason” in their heads


And the Met is failing. It’s desperate to do too many things and getting it wrong. They will bring in more government consultants to fix it and it will still be the same.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I mean previous to yesterday they would have grown a pair and started arresting people for causing. Antisemitism is racism I believe and people should be protected by our police

That may (I doubt it) have stopped the hooligans rocking up. They didn’t turn up last year and cause agro but they did this year because they had a “reason” in their heads


And the Met is failing. It’s desperate to do too many things and getting it wrong. They will bring in more government consultants to fix it and it will still be the same.
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The police have been arresting anyone who have had an intent to cause harm whichever side of the protest and charged several with public order offences. Don't believe the rhetoric.
 
scaramanga said:
Largely true. But what separates ethnicity from belief is that it's an accident of birth, and therefore not a choice, like gender, sexual orientation, etc.

You can't judge people on those things unless you're a monster, like those protesting yesterday. You can judge on religion as it's a choice.
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This is where you lose me. The wild generalisation that anyone attending the protest against a conflict is a monster is an absurd take. Along with you using the term antisemitism to suit your needs rather than what it actually means (both dawaxaman and greys agree on that point FWIW) and making outrageous claims it's hard to see any reasonable person agreeing or even seeing any merit in what you're saying.

I know it's part of the online persona to never admit fault or just that you're plain wrong about anything but I beg you, consider the language you choose to use. I don't doubt that there were monstrous people who were part of the protests (yes on both sides yada yada) but also some genuinely nice people who want an end to either full scale wars or the brutal attacks such as the hamas attacks on the music festival and others. Labelling them all as monsters just isn't accurate, nor productive.

I'm anticipating an ever so hilarious TLDNR style post in response and if you want to take that childish route I get it, but maybe a slight introspective look at making sure what you're saying isn't inflammatory, would add more weight to your points imo.
 
kb 1984 said:
Of course there is room for people to be neutral. I condem Hamas & I condem the IDf for the killing innocent civilians. the UN have accused both sides of war crimes. Just think about about all the ordinary people on both sides that wants it to just stop

I find all violence abhorrent whether it's a pub fight or killing innocent people in war.
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That is not neutral, you condemned Hamas.

Though you cannot say it outright without subsuming that point into some other views you have.

Why is that do you think?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Because they are wet blankets and the government are petrified of doing the wrong thing… so let everyone do the wrong thing

today you have the old hooligan boys on their Stella and coke kicking off. They were the one the met focussed on
You had the pro pallistine match which had significant elements of aggressive antismetism that wasn’t dealt with
So you had two polar opposites of what is in reality racism from different sides
and the met kinda sat in the middle wondering which one is the easier target
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Looks like Braverman had her stopped clock moment and managed to be right.

There's a vast difference in how the two sets of extremists are policed, and unless the Met can start to balance better, there's going to be quite a lot of unrest.
 
kb 1984 said:
Agreed but if the government is not supporting the met what are they supposed to do. You can't expect 2000 cops to try & arrest people in a protest that large. What they can do is film it & arrest them later. If this was the late 70s 80s Thatcher would have sent the met in to crack a few heads & they loved cracking heads on a regular basis.thats just not acceptable these days
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They expected large numbers. If they ever had any intention of keeping control, they'd have asked for the army to help.
 
spurspinter1 said:
This is where you lose me. The wild generalisation that anyone attending the protest against a conflict is a monster is an absurd take. Along with you using the term antisemitism to suit your needs rather than what it actually means (both dawaxaman and greys agree on that point FWIW) and making outrageous claims it's hard to see any reasonable person agreeing or even seeing any merit in what you're saying.

I know it's part of the online persona to never admit fault or just that you're plain wrong about anything but I beg you, consider the language you choose to use. I don't doubt that there were monstrous people who were part of the protests (yes on both sides yada yada) but also some genuinely nice people who want an end to either full scale wars or the brutal attacks such as the hamas attacks on the music festival and others. Labelling them all as monsters just isn't accurate, nor productive.

I'm anticipating an ever so hilarious TLDNR style post in response and if you want to take that childish route I get it, but maybe a slight introspective look at making sure what you're saying isn't inflammatory, would add more weight to your points imo.
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I'll accept that anyone who marched against Hamas when they slaughtered Jews and are now marching against the war are genuinely there for peace. Not sure what proportion that makes up - you'll probably know better than I do.

I think you significantly underestimate just how rife anti-semitism is in this country and Europe as a whole. Significant parts of the country's opposition are/were antisemites, its previous leader is and reasonably large parts of the country voted for him/them. If those people are not active antisemites, then they're willing to ignore it as a trait in others.

Then you have a large number of godtards - they're as bad as the antisemites, but I will allow for a level of brainwashing in there. They're obviously not from the upper end of the IQ scale, so they're as likely to hate Jews because they've been told to, rather than actively deciding to.

It's clear there's a lot of the standard useful idiots in the crowd. Those who know nothing whatsoever of the situation, or don't have the intellectual capacity to properly understand it. As far as I'm concerned, if they're furthering the cause of the racists, then they're as bad.
 
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scaramanga said:
Looks like Braverman had her stopped clock moment and managed to be right.

There's a vast difference in how the two sets of extremists are policed, and unless the Met can start to balance better, there's going to be quite a lot of unrest.
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That’s my issue
Stop the issues in the first problem then don’t give the second group a chance to respond

I know when I worked for a huge security company they always used to comment at how poor the way things like this are governed in London

We should not be in a position where any citizens are scared of leaving their homes.
 
Robspur12 said:
Thanks mate. But tbf I have not worked in the Met for a long time although I am still friends and work with operational police officers.
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So am I
I’ve also worked in that world (not on security but on government contracts)
And the met and London generally is seen as a mess
The guys I know who still work in it have now pride in how it’s run and are genuinely worried
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So am I
I’ve also worked in that world (not on security but on government contracts)
And the met and London generally is seen as a mess
The guys I know who still work in it have now pride in how it’s run and are genuinely worried
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There are lots of reasons that the rank and file officers are dissatisfied.

But that is quite different to claiming that Police are deliberately policing two groups differently because of politics alone. It is true Police will not get every decision right. But mostly that is to do with other considerations.

I used to police football matches and the notting hill carnival. The aim was to keep people safe by going after threats to life or instances of disorder. Yes some might criticise some of the offences that we did not enforce on the day, even I questioned them at times, but mostly you are just trying to keep a lid on things while the adrenaline is pouring through your own
body. Policing crowds is complex. You want the numbers remaining available on the front line rather than getting involved in enforcing all offences.

The police did arrest quite a few protesters. But it can be difficult to distinguish on the front line the difference between free speech and hate speech.
 
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