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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

scaramanga said:
Ladies and gentlemen(?) May I present to you, your London-based, anti-Semitic protesters in all their glory:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1722715689142640832
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“Yaaaaaa, I hear there’s a march happening, let’s go.

And let’s make a colourful placard. It’ll be a fun day out…..”“What are they marching for btw?”“I’m not really sure, something about free hummus, so we’ll get a free lunch”“Ok cool.

I hope it’s vegan friendly”
 
SpurMeUp said:
It does seem unnecessary that everyone is trying to jump in on remembrance weekend. Unless that is the plan? Why not make the protest the weekend before or after?

People absolutely should protest about the plight of innocent people in Gaza. Is there a lack of knowledge and understanding (on both sides)? Without doubt. It is quite easy to 'auto-support' Palastine, as they are the underdog, trapped and impoverished side. But there is a whole complexity to the situation. Not least that Israel was attacked by fundamentalists who control Gaza. Not least Gaza only exists as a semi-autonomous state now because Israel was attacked in the 1960s. And it was part of Egypt prior, who doesn't want it back now. Do the people on these marches even consider this? It doesn't seem like many even know, let alone build a fair and balanced view. You have Queers for Palestine when Palestine has banned gay people for decades, and people not even aware Hamas went on a murder spree in Israel; so no wonder many don't appreciate some of the more nuanced complex history. But when peace comes it will be from an understanding of both sides' issues, so it seems these marches could be creating greater entrenchment without understanding. Resulting in deeper division and more anger.
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If only some of the pricks on this board read your post maybe they'd understand instead of spewing rhetoric and words they'd struggle to define

And one additional point about these supposedly peaceful marches that have been happening every weekend now. For those attending and/or agreeing with them happening in their current guise - do you acknowledge that there are some amongst the protestors who have extreme views that don't match yours? Chanting for Jihad when you thought the march was for peace? Holding signs that call for the destruction of Israel and Jews?

Would you continue to walk alongside those people? Would you think twice about attending the following week?

The closest analogy I can draw here is if you were to go on a rally about improving the UK education system and a band of people are chanting that black people shouldn't be teachers. Would you distance yourself as quickly as physically possible? Because whilst you both want an improved education system, their proposed way of achieving that is vulgar and despicable....

Makes you wonder what type of person sees the media coverage of hoards of people (not ALL!!!) desecrating monuments, cheering brutality towards to Jews and glorifying terrorism and thinks "yea I'll go along to that next week. Just as soon as I've created my placard about genocide or ethnic cleansing" (without having the self-awareness to discover the meaning of those terms)
 
Erm, I don't think you need to be aware of the history of the Israeli/Palestine conflict to be repulsed and devastated by pictures of dying and seriously injured children or children traumatized by watching their families and friends destroyed by the machinery of war.

History comes second as far as I am concerned. The here and now is what matters in particular, protecting vulnerable people. I would have thought that is a gut reaction for most normal human beings. And doesn't matter if those children are Israeli, Palestinian or martian.

So I don't go on marches but I would happily shout that from the rooftops. I am sure there are lots on the marches who don't understand all the ins and outs of the conflict. But they are moved by children suffering.

Edit: we are about to remember people who have lost their lives because of conflicts. I really struggle to see some of those on here apparently defending remembrance Sunday while at the same time making fun of or criticising people marching for peace. And many will not even see the contradiction.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Erm, I don't think you need to be aware of the history of the Israeli/Palestine conflict to be repulsed and devastated by pictures of dying and seriously injured children or children traumatized by watching their families and friends destroyed by the machinery of war.

History comes second as far as I am concerned. The here and now is what matters in particular, protecting vulnerable people. I would have thought that is a gut reaction for most normal human beings. And doesn't matter if those children are Israeli, Palestinian or martian.

So I don't go on marches but I would happily shout that from the rooftops. I am sure there are lots on the marches who don't understand all the ins and outs of the conflict. But they are moved by children suffering.

Edit: we are about to remember people who have lost their lives because of conflicts. I really struggle to see some of those on here apparently defending remembrance Sunday while at the same time making fun of or criticising people marching for peace. And many will not even see the contradiction.
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it depends if you are interested in resolution and peace and being part of that effort. Every humane person is repulsed by death and suffering. This is a devastating reality on both sides is it not? If you’re only repulsed by the suffering on one side then you are part of the problem.
 
The principle that you go on a march to stand up for a cause you don’t understand and won’t bother to look up, I find questionable. How do you know what you are protesting for? History has various popularist movements where people without understanding back retrograde movements. Whether backing something like brexit or attending the Nuremberg rallies in the 1920s, the premise that you should back a movement without bothering to understand it isn’t sound. I’m not suggesting there is any equivalence with supporting Palestine, simply responding to the idea that being oblivious to the detail of a cause you back is okay.
 
How many people on these marches are calling for hamas to surrender? Or for hamas to return the hostages?

How many people, sickened by the death of children, will hold up the missing posters that seem to constantly be getting collected by 'protestors', I presume because they want to bring them on their rallies to highlight the sadness and devastation that hamas has created...

If peace and an end to suffering is what they genuinely want, surely they should want the end of hamas (and any other terror organisation for that matter)?

Do you believe that Israel backing off would result in less deaths? Or just less gazan civilian deaths? Doesn't matter if a ceasefire results in an increase in more Israeli/Jewish deaths?

Why don't you think the moderate protesters say something to the radicals they are choosing to walk shoulder to shoulder with? Is it because their views aren't moderate after all? Or is it because they're scared of what the radical person might say/do to them (which makes you question the nature of the rally....)
 
Robspur12 said:
Erm, I don't think you need to be aware of the history of the Israeli/Palestine conflict to be repulsed and devastated by pictures of dying and seriously injured children or children traumatized by watching their families and friends destroyed by the machinery of war.

History comes second as far as I am concerned. The here and now is what matters in particular, protecting vulnerable people. I would have thought that is a gut reaction for most normal human beings. And doesn't matter if those children are Israeli, Palestinian or martian.

So I don't go on marches but I would happily shout that from the rooftops. I am sure there are lots on the marches who don't understand all the ins and outs of the conflict. But they are moved by children suffering.

Edit: we are about to remember people who have lost their lives because of conflicts. I really struggle to see some of those on here apparently defending remembrance Sunday while at the same time making fun of or criticising people marching for peace. And many will not even see the contradiction.
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When you say the history comes second... at what point are we drawing a line at 'history'? The afternoon of October 7th? Today? You can't have a terror attack on your country and immediately start saying that it's history can you??
 
SpurMeUp said:
it depends if you are interested in resolution and peace and being part of that effort. Every humane person is repulsed by death and suffering. This is a devastating reality on both sides is it not? If you’re only repulsed by the suffering on one side then you are part of the problem.
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I believe I stated that I, and I would think I am not different to many, am repulsed by children being victims of war on whichever side they happen to fall. I was equally devastated by the brutality of Hamas on the Israeli children as I am of the pictures of Palestinian children suffering. I don't make a distinction. I want all children to be protected from conflict.
 
SpurMeUp said:
it depends if you are interested in resolution and peace and being part of that effort. Every humane person is repulsed by death and suffering. This is a devastating reality on both sides is it not? If you’re only repulsed by the suffering on one side then you are part of the problem.
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I'm not seeing anyone on this thread who has not been repulsed by atrocities on both "sides", I'm guessing it's more of a general rhetorical question?

It's been thrown around that posters are pro hamas and whilst we should cut posters some slack who are personally caught up in it there should be a line in terms of stomping around calling everyone tossers, posting propaganda and avoiding any attempt at genuine discussions or difficult questions. It doesn't add to the discourse for those for are genuinely wanting to learn about what's going on.
 
Robspur12 said:
I believe I stated that I, and I would think I am not different to many, am repulsed by children being victims of war on whichever side they happen to fall. I was equally devastated by the brutality of Hamas on the Israeli children as I am of the pictures of Palestinian children suffering. I don't make a distinction. I want all children to be protected from conflict.
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We agree. Though we were discussing people attending protests who deny knowledge of the events that occurred on Isreal's side, which occurred prior. Almost as though they have no idea what occurred (no wonder they are incensed!). Recent history being re-written, ignored, or simply missed!
 
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spurspinter1 said:
I'm not seeing anyone on this thread who has not been repulsed by atrocities on both "sides", I'm guessing it's more of a general rhetorical question?

It's been thrown around that posters are pro hamas and whilst we should cut posters some slack who are personally caught up in it there should be a line in terms of stomping around calling everyone tossers, posting propaganda and avoiding any attempt at genuine discussions or difficult questions. It doesn't add to the discourse for those for are genuinely wanting to learn about what's going on.
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You don't think this is a valid point? For me it cuts to the heart of the division. Of ingroups, who back their own. Fueling a sense of injustice fed by images and stories of devastation caused to their side. Depending on your ingroup you relate to the poor souls who have suffered, whilst glossing over the suffering of the other side. There is indulgence - when it suits you - and ambivalence when it does not.

If you don't think that's an issue, maybe I have it wrong.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Erm, I don't think you need to be aware of the history of the Israeli/Palestine conflict to be repulsed and devastated by pictures of dying and seriously injured children or children traumatized by watching their families and friends destroyed by the machinery of war.

History comes second as far as I am concerned. The here and now is what matters in particular, protecting vulnerable people. I would have thought that is a gut reaction for most normal human beings. And doesn't matter if those children are Israeli, Palestinian or martian.

So I don't go on marches but I would happily shout that from the rooftops. I am sure there are lots on the marches who don't understand all the ins and outs of the conflict. But they are moved by children suffering.

Edit: we are about to remember people who have lost their lives because of conflicts. I really struggle to see some of those on here apparently defending remembrance Sunday while at the same time making fun of or criticising people marching for peace. And many will not even see the contradiction.
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If you think they're marching for peace then you're not paying attention.

These people are marching for the eradication of what their gay-hating, paedophilia-loving sky fairy has told them is their enemy. Some are just plain old, 1930s antisemites. The rest are their useful idiots.

Those we are remembering died defending us from people like those marching.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You don't think this is a valid point? For me it cuts to the heart of the division. Of ingroups, who back their own. Fueling a sense of injustice fed by images and stories of devastation caused to their side. Depending on your ingroup you relate to the poor souls who have suffered, whilst glossing over the suffering of the other side. There is indulgence - when it suits you - and ambivalence when it does not.

If you don't think that's an issue, maybe I have it wrong.
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It's absolutely a valid point, be disgusted by all of it or none of it. It's all a brick show where humanity lets itself down and innocent people suffer. But, again, I haven't seen anyone supporting Hamas' actions yet that accusation has been thrown around on here by one poster in particular. I'm wary of being a hypocrite as I can get a bit heated on much more trivial matters but when possible it's best to have a discussion in good faith without resorting to insults or false accusations (obviously not aimed at yourself).

FWIW there's also been the standard vile misuse of the term anti-Semitism, it's obviously rife and is a massive problem but to label everyone who attends a pro peace match as anti semitic is ridiculous. But it's from posters who there is just no point debating with on such matters. It's like the suggestion that any criticism of Israeli government must be born of antisemitism, it absolutely could be but there's plenty of Jewish people that don't back certain actions taken and also have attended the marches hoping to reach a ceasefire (even if it's not feasible that Hamas will truly adhere to one, I'll say it myself before someone jumps at the chance).
 
scaramanga said:
If you think they're marching for peace then you're not paying attention.

These people are marching for the eradication of what their gay-hating, paedophilia-loving sky fairy has told them is their enemy. Some are just plain old, 1930s antisemites. The rest are their useful idiots.

Those we are remembering died defending us from people like those marching.
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And as long as there are people posting these kinds of divisive generalisations, there will never be any form of compromise/peace in the middle east. Murder and destruction will continue unabated both of Israelis and Palestinians. But I guess you know that already . What a shame you have to resort to Islamaphobia to make your point. I am sure you are better than that.
 
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Robspur12 said:
And as long as there are people posting these kinds of divisive generalisations, there will never be any form of compromise/peace in the middle east. Murder and destruction will continue unabated both of Israelis and Palestinians. But I guess you know that already . What a shame you have to resort to Islamaphobia to make your point. I am sure you are better than that.
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Not just Islam - there's your standard 1930s Germany style of anti-Semites in there too.
 
spurspinter1 said:
It's absolutely a valid point, be disgusted by all of it or none of it. It's all a brick show where humanity lets itself down and innocent people suffer. But, again, I haven't seen anyone supporting Hamas' actions yet that accusation has been thrown around on here by one poster in particular. I'm wary of being a hypocrite as I can get a bit heated on much more trivial matters but when possible it's best to have a discussion in good faith without resorting to insults or false accusations (obviously not aimed at yourself).

FWIW there's also been the standard vile misuse of the term anti-Semitism, it's obviously rife and is a massive problem but to label everyone who attends a pro peace match as anti semitic is ridiculous. But it's from posters who there is just no point debating with on such matters. It's like the suggestion that any criticism of Israeli government must be born of antisemitism, it absolutely could be but there's plenty of Jewish people that don't back certain actions taken and also have attended the marches hoping to reach a ceasefire (even if it's not feasible that Hamas will truly adhere to one, I'll say it myself before someone jumps at the chance).
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Would you be able to explain what the emboldened phrase means please?

Seems to me that you're implying that claiming antisemitism is commonly misused... am I reading that right?
 
So Khan, London's wonderful Mayor said today that Remembrance weekend should be moved to next weekend as the Palestine marches are more important and more current
 
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