Serge Aurier

[Bedfordspurs]

The bolded one.

Aurier does commit fouls. Others in the team commit proportionally more however. Also several of those players are defensive players so we're not talking about 'tactical fouls' like (e.g) Kane might commit.

Edit... It is also actually only a total of 1 foul per game that Aurier commits, If you are stewing about that then I would suggest that it definitely confirms your bias.

We’re not a team that makes many fouls TBF. I’d be stunned if we had any player who averages more than 1 a game without a specific game being an outlier

 

[Finney Is Back]

We’re not a team that makes many fouls TBF. I’d be stunned if we had any player who averages more than 1 a game without a specific game being an outlier

Just checked..... Sissoko, Dier, Rose, Kane and Lamela all commit more than 1 a game.

 

[elltrev]

I'll try to watch it later on when I'm back from the Boro game. I did state in another thread though that I thought Man Utd was Aurier's worst match of the season (probably along with the Chelsea game). He was far from alone in either game though, where I think we were collectively bad. Interestingly enough in both of those games Aurier had to do a lot more defending than attacking. I don't deny that Aurier's defensive game is weaker than his offensive game, but as an all round player I think he generally does a reasonable job. Do I think we can do better? Absolutely. Do I think he is the biggest problem in our team? Hell no.... he is a better right sided player by orders of magnitude than any of the players who have played the deep midfield role for us this season.

As I think Nayim has alluded to, I think the thing with Aurier is that his moments of poor play are so egregiously bad. So not only do they outweigh all of his good moments in lots of people's minds, those good moments actually make his egregiously bad moments even more infuriating - because he so clearly seems capable of better. Coupled with the fact that many of his bad moments seem to relate to concentration/effort, which seems like it should be more in his control to correct or improve than a lack of physical or technical ability, I think he's even more maddening.

Does that mean some people underrate his overall performances, because the bad moments get overweighted and the good moments get underweighted? Maybe, I'm genuinely not sure. But either way I'd argue he is at least the second priority to upgrade on, alongside DM. Do you think he's any lower priority than that?

(Also I think some of your stats aren't totally valid, in terms of the criticisms people are making of him - e.g. it's not that he constantly makes loads of fouls, it's that he has occasionally made very stupid and costly ones. And for me the even bigger mistakes are ones where he doesn't track his runner at all, which just doesn't show up on stats).

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

At the weekend he had a single bad moment (and personally I think it is very debatable as to whether it was even a bad moment) on the throw in, where Aurier won a tackle and should've got a throw in for it and threw a little strop at the bad decision. The throw in then went to a player that Harry Winks went to sleep on, then broke to a position that Dele Ali was covering only for Dele to bottle out of putting his head in there (had he done this the goal wouldn't have been scored, additionally had that been Eriksen who did this I can only imagine the raging on here) after that Tanganga got beaten (admittedly by a great piece of skill).

So when both Winks and Dele are far more responsible for the goal, people who have a prior formed negative opinion of Aurier (such as yourself) will still find a way to blame him for the goal.

Of course with 5 mins remaining, Aurier also created a golden chance for Lo Celso with by far the best ball of the whole game that either team played, I would argue that moment that should've been a goal for us was worth WAY more than any failings he might've had for Liverpool's goal. Of course those that dislike Aurier will be adamant that the action for Liverpool's goal far outweighed the ball for what should've been our equaliser, to those I would like to ask what Dele and Winks did in the game that made up for their very large part in Liverpool's goal.

I agree with all that.

Why wouldn't I.

It's not the overarching point Im (and others) are making.

Comparing supporters differing attitudes towards one player and another doesn't make Aurier an ok player.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm pretty sure that it was Harry Winks who switched off at that throw in? Aurier was out wide with Mane and Robertson (the player he was clearly detailed to specifically pick up).

Sigh. I was talking about his mini-fit. It throws focus for a couple of seconds and several got sucked in. IMO.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sigh. I was talking about his mini-fit. It throws focus for a couple of seconds and several got sucked in. IMO.

I think I've heard it all now.... So Winks switched off and Dele bottled the challenge because Aurier distracted them?

I think there is all the evidence one needs to show that you are determined to apportion the blame on a player you dislike instead of the actual player(s) culpable.

 

[Finney Is Back]

As I think Nayim has alluded to, I think the thing with Aurier is that his moments of poor play are so egregiously bad. So not only do they outweigh all of his good moments in lots of people's minds, those good moments actually make his egregiously bad moments even more infuriating - because he so clearly seems capable of better. Coupled with the fact that many of his bad moments seem to relate to concentration/effort, which seems like it should be more in his control to correct or improve than a lack of physical or technical ability, I think he's even more maddening.

Does that mean some people underrate his overall performances, because the bad moments get overweighted and the good moments get underweighted? Maybe, I'm genuinely not sure. But either way I'd argue he is at least the second priority to upgrade on, alongside DM. Do you think he's any lower priority than that?

(Also I think some of your stats aren't totally valid, in terms of the criticisms people are making of him - e.g. it's not that he constantly makes loads of fouls, it's that he has occasionally made very stupid and costly ones. And for me the even bigger mistakes are ones where he doesn't track his runner at all, which just doesn't show up on stats).

Re: Your last paragraph... trying to think of those this season... second yellow against Southampton should've cost us (Aurier was a bit unlucky as it was a dive but still). Any others? I thought the Liverpool penalty foul was very unlucky and actually really good defending. What are his other fouls that have cost us?

Also what about Son's 2 red cards this season? Haven't they cost us just as much or more?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just checked..... Sissoko, Dier, Rose, Kane and Lamela all commit more than 1 a game.

What 1.2 a game ?

 

[Bishop]

I think I've heard it all now.... So Winks switched off and Dele bottled the challenge because Aurier distracted them?

I think there is all the evidence one needs to show that you are determined to apportion the blame on a player you dislike instead of the actual player(s) culpable.

That is actually hilarious. [emoji38]

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[thfcsteff]

I think I've heard it all now.... So Winks switched off and Dele bottled the challenge because Aurier distracted them?

I think there is all the evidence one needs to show that you are determined to apportion the blame on a player you dislike instead of the actual player(s) culpable.

Nah. You simply refuse to accept that he has liability moments often. If you actually wanted a discussion you’d have noted my match comments offered positivity and praise regarding his performance. But he is still an issue. You are sticking to this “it is what Mourinho wants from him” line of conversation; I do not think he wants the regular Aurier switch-offs. He actually mentioned how they’d worked on defending throw-ins specifically.

Look at the still from the throw in. What is Aurier doing from your perspective? I would be happy to discuss. I will then explain in more detail why I passed the comment I did and
stick to it.

 

[thfcsteff]

That is actually hilarious. [emoji38]

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

Again, would love to know what you think Aurier is doing in terms of helping defend that throw-in. Bear in mind, he had just jumped around in frustration and actually broken his focus for the first time in the game. The whole first-half was about focus and keeping it together. Details can cost games. He was not helpful at all.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nah. You simply refuse to accept that he has liability moments often. If you actually wanted a discussion View attachment 8056 View attachment 8056 you’d have noted my match comments offered positivity and praise regarding his performance. But he is still an issue. You are sticking to this “it is what Mourinho wants from him” line of conversation; I do not think he wants the regular Aurier switch-offs. He actually mentioned how they’d worked on defending throw-ins specifically.

Look at the still from the throw in. What is Aurier doing from your perspective? I would be happy to discuss. I will then explain in more detail why I passed the comment I did and
stick to it.

I accept that Aurier has liability moments (Unfortunately I think several of our players do). That Liverpool goal at the weekend simply wasn't one of them and IMO you make yourself look silly trying to attribute that goal to a mistake by Aurier

if you can look at that still and see anything other than Winks losing his direct player then you clearly have issues. You can also see Dele with his player (if you move it a few frames on you can then see him bottling the challenge that could still have avoided the goal after Winks' mistake).

It looks to me that Aurier is covering a ball to Mane. I think (and I could be wrong) it is also Robertson (Aurier's direct opponent) taking the throw so Aurier is also positioned to get onto Robertson if Liverpool play a pass back to him after a throw.

If being super critical here, one could also say that Alderweireld should spot the space in behind Winks and move across to try to cover that (Sanchez and then Rose would then filter across a little as well if Toby did this). However that is ignoring the direct cause of the goal that everything else is secondary to, which is Winks inexplicably losing his man.

*Edit. I actually just saw the goal on Football Centre on Sky Sports News and played it all in slow motion. If you go back just a few frames from your still it looks even worse for Winks. He is clearly picking up Firminho (he even adjusts his position in relation to Firminho as Firminho moves towards Robertson taking the throw in). This all takes place after Aurier has had his mini fit that accordingly to you distracted Winks and caused him to lose his focus (which is clearly absolute rubbish as you see Winks initially picking up Firminho, I reckon there were more than 10 seconds elapsing between Aurier thowing the ball down and Robertson taking the throw by the way). The problem is that when Firminho makes his run in behind Winks, Harry is very slow to react. Alderweired does actually then go and win the header but it isn't a great one under pressure from Firminho.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Genuinely interested to hear your thoughts on the video clip I posted on the last page?

Hi mate. I watched it back and yes I agree with you. His play for the first Man Utd goal is absolutely terrible. He absolutely needs to cover Rashford's run.

Gets beaten for the second goal as well, but Rashford is a player that will beat his opponent a few times in every game he plays. I put that second goal down to Sissoko making a silly challenge just as much as Aurier getting beaten by a piece of skill when stood up 1 v 1 out wide half way in our own half. Ideally in that situation I would like Aurier to have come away with a foul on Rashford as the worst case scenario, making sure that he had at least one hand on Rashford to be able to pull him back/down if necessary.

Watching all that back I had almost forgotten just how good that Dele goal was.... absolute genius there. Probably only 3 or 4 players in the whole league skilfull enough to have scored that goal and only actually Dele who would have the audacity to even try it.

 

[elltrev]

Hi mate. I watched it back and yes I agree with you. His play for the first Man Utd goal is absolutely terrible. He absolutely needs to cover Rashford's run.

Gets beaten for the second goal as well, but Rashford is a player that will beat his opponent a few times in every game he plays. I put that second goal down to Sissoko making a silly challenge just as much as Aurier getting beaten by a piece of skill when stood up 1 v 1 out wide half way in our own half. Ideally in that situation I would like Aurier to have come away with a foul on Rashford as the worst case scenario, making sure that he had at least one hand on Rashford to be able to pull him back/down if necessary.

Watching all that back I had almost forgotten just how good that Dele goal was.... absolute genius there. Probably only 3 or 4 players in the whole league skilfull enough to have scored that goal and only actually Dele who would have the audacity to even try it.

Agree he doesn’t deserve to be slated for the second goal (or Liverpool’s at the weekend).

 

[parklane1]

Interesting and as i expected.

As I said before; many people's opinions on Aurier were formed prior to this season and it is hard for people to change their first impressions, that is just a human trait. It happened with Sissoko as well, who went from terrible to OK. Yet it took lots of us time to realise and admit that, with some stubborn types never being able to do so.

Aurier is now a far better player for us than he was in his first season. I think some of the people on here who slate him actually fail to understand the system that Mourinho is playing and what the coach is asking the player to do. The fact that Mourinho has made him his clear first choice on the right backs this up somewhat.

Spot on, we all know he loses concentration a bit but to prove your points look how many fans still throw the foul throw brick into the conversation all the time.

 

[thfcsteff]

I accept that Aurier has liability moments (Unfortunately I think several of our players do). That Liverpool goal at the weekend simply wasn't one of them and IMO you make yourself look silly trying to attribute that goal to a mistake by Aurier

if you can look at that still and see anything other than Winks losing his direct player then you clearly have issues. You can also see Dele with his player (if you move it a few frames on you can then see him bottling the challenge that could still have avoided the goal after Winks' mistake).

It looks to me that Aurier is covering a ball to Mane. I think (and I could be wrong) it is also Robertson (Aurier's direct opponent) taking the throw so Aurier is also positioned to get onto Robertson if Liverpool play a pass back to him after a throw.

If being super critical here, one could also say that Alderweireld should spot the space in behind Winks and move across to try to cover that (Sanchez and then Rose would then filter across a little as well if Toby did this). However that is ignoring the direct cause of the goal that everything else is secondary to, which is Winks inexplicably losing his man.

*Edit. I actually just saw the goal on Football Centre on Sky Sports News and played it all in slow motion. If you go back just a few frames from your still it looks even worse for Winks. He is clearly picking up Firminho (he even adjusts his position in relation to Firminho as Firminho moves towards Robertson taking the throw in). This all takes place after Aurier has had his mini fit that accordingly to you distracted Winks and caused him to lose his focus (which is clearly absolute rubbish as you see Winks initially picking up Firminho, I reckon there were more than 10 seconds elapsing between Aurier thowing the ball down and Robertson taking the throw by the way). The problem is that when Firminho makes his run in behind Winks, Harry is very slow to react. Alderweired does actually then go and win the header but it isn't a great one under pressure from Firminho.

So...again...I am NOT solely blaming him, but the goal came about from a situation (and area of the pitch) he is involved in. His positioning is terrible and actually leaves him doing nothing of thought or use.

And again you are nailing a specific (re:Aurier and Winks and focus). My point is that in games with that level of tactical focus, no switch-offs can happen. And when Aurier has a switch off/small wobbler, he has previous. It could easily prove a momentary disruption. In fact, if Aurier simply goes to prevent the throw happening in that direction as opposed to covering a man who is covered, no problem.

Again, if you want to debate this to death I am here all day mate. I did not solely blame him for the goal, but he was a big factor for me. Yes, Winks was slow to react.

 

[thfcsteff]

Just for the record, here was my first post after dippers...

<<Have to say I thought he had one of his better games today. I will refrain from criticisms in lieu of the overall positive performance.>>

Sadly I DID lie with that last sentence!!!!

 

[Finney Is Back]

So...again...I am NOT solely blaming him, but the goal came about from a situation (and area of the pitch) he is involved in. His positioning is terrible and actually leaves him doing nothing of thought or use.

And again you are nailing a specific (re:Aurier and Winks and focus). My point is that in games with that level of tactical focus, no switch-offs can happen. And when Aurier has a switch off/small wobbler, he has previous. It could easily prove a momentary disruption. In fact, if Aurier simply goes to prevent the throw happening in that direction as opposed to covering a man who is covered, no problem.

Again, if you want to debate this to death I am here all day mate. I did not solely blame him for the goal, but he was a big factor for me. Yes, Winks was slow to react.

Making a tackle and conceding a throw-in? (that actually should've been our throw-in). It seems that you are the only person on here that apportions any blame on Aurier for that goal and you're doing it simply because you want to blame Aurier for that goal. I get it. I sometimes find myself trying to find a way to blame Dier for things as he is my least favourite player in the team.

Have a look at the facts of your arguments and you'll eventually come the right conclusion mate..... Your absolute classic about 'Aurier distracting Winks' is probably the biggest give away here, I think that might be one of the most hilarious excuses to try to re-apportion blame for a goal that I have seen on this forum (and there have been a fair few classics over the years!)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Making a tackle and conceding a throw-in? (that actually should've been our throw-in). It seems that you are the only person on here that apportions any blame on Aurier for that goal and you're doing it simply because you want to blame Aurier for that goal. I get it. I sometimes find myself trying to find a way to blame Dier for things as he is my least favourite player in the team.

Have a look at the facts of your arguments and you'll eventually come the right conclusion mate..... Your absolute classic about 'Aurier distracting Winks' is probably the biggest give away here, I think that might be one of the most hilarious excuses to try to re-apportion blame for a goal that I have seen on this forum (and there have been a fair few classics over the years!)

Auriers only accountability for that goal was he was a defender on the pitch in much the same way as Rose... he had no say or very very little in that goal. IMO it came from a weak header form Toby and a great turn from Firmino doing Tanganga

 

[thfcsteff]

Making a tackle and conceding a throw-in? (that actually should've been our throw-in). It seems that you are the only person on here that apportions any blame on Aurier for that goal and you're doing it simply because you want to blame Aurier for that goal. I get it. I sometimes find myself trying to find a way to blame Dier for things as he is my least favourite player in the team.

Have a look at the facts of your arguments and you'll eventually come the right conclusion mate..... Your absolute classic about 'Aurier distracting Winks' is probably the biggest give away here, I think that might be one of the most hilarious excuses to try to re-apportion blame for a goal that I have seen on this forum (and there have been a fair few classics over the years!)

Ah well, glad to be of service.
I still maintain that if you look at his positioning from the throw-in, he has left a massive pocket behind him unnecessarily (the one Firmino went behind Winks on).
Mourinho said they practiced defending throw-ins the previous day and lost on a throw-in. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks.

Again, despite my saying not several times, you have narrowed this to an idea that I am solely blaming Aurier for the goal. I am not. What I am pointing out are that once again, he has shown less than smart defensive thought. It contributed. As did Winks, as did Dele, as did Toby. Tanganga is the only player who gets a pass - he was done by superior skill.

As for being the “only”’person here (Galeforce I think agrees BTW) that wouldn’t bother me in the least.