Pre Season Thread

[Muttley]

Exactly, thats where I think most people are. If you are going to sell talent like Vusko and Bergvall for example then you have to deliver on the path you choose working.

For all the youth that havent been deemed good enough I can name as many expensive mistakes we bought who are the same.

Its clearly a balance

It's interesting the 2 names you pull out of the hat. I don't think RDZ was phased by Vusko's reputation and was probably more on the thought process of whether the young guy was going to subserve to his manager and get his head down to fight for a place. That Vuskovic sale probably sent a big message to guys like Bergval who has always had it quite easy in their early career. Lucas was always ahead of his age group and playing first team football. He's at that point of inflexion now where he in the bigger pool and needs to fight a 22 year old Fernandes for a shirt. Mateus has done it the other way where he's lost 2 relegation scraps for Saints and Hammers but picked up a ton of experience.

I'm still in the camp where I'd love to see Gray and Bergval completely trust RDZ with their careers.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

It's interesting the 2 names you pull out of the hat. I don't think RDZ was phased by Vusko's reputation and was probably more on the thought process of whether the young guy was going to subserve to his manager and get his head down to fight for a place. That Vuskovic sale probably sent a big message to guys like Bergval who has always had it quite easy in their early career. Lucas was always ahead of his age group and playing first team football. He's at that point of inflexion now where he in the bigger pool and needs to fight a 22 year old Fernandes for a shirt. Mateus has done it the other way where he's lost 2 relegation scraps for Saints and Hammers but picked up a ton of experience.

I'm still in the camp where I'd love to see Gray and Bergval completely trust RDZ with their careers.

Yeh and look I am ok with it for sure, time will tell if swapping out Vusko got JPVH will pay dividends long term

 

[billyiddo]

I'm not sure "not seeing age" is 100% a good thing - clubs need to develop younger players and part of that requires making allowances for their inexperience.

 

[harr1984]

I'm not sure "not seeing age" is 100% a good thing - clubs need to develop younger players and part of that requires making allowances for their inexperience.

I think it's more about not discriminating against young players more than totally forgetting about considering their age. I doubt he thinks LWB is ready, but I don't think he will be looking to get rid of him bar a loan either.

Also worth considering specifically for this season with no Europe and our aspirations it is difficult to develop them in our squad. Hopefully we get some good loans for them this season....

 

[Legohamster]

He was their option if they stayed in the championship. But when they got promoted, they raised their sights and got Okafor from Milan instead, as well as bringing Jack Harrison back from Everton

Incorrect.

No option and they still bid to firm it up.

They wanted him , we turned down offers.

 

[Yiddo.1882]

I'm not sure "not seeing age" is 100% a good thing - clubs need to develop younger players and part of that requires making allowances for their inexperience.

Agree completely, it’s needs to be a balance between seeing a players potential and where they are in the here and now, and deciding will training and being around the first team or going on loan suit them better.

 

[Muttley]

Agree completely, it’s needs to be a balance between seeing a players potential and where they are in the here and now, and deciding will training and being around the first team or going on loan suit them better.

It's also about the "2 players for each position" model. If RDZ is age agnostic then he has to believe that if Madds or Kudus can't start a game then LWB can perform at that level in their place. Once you have 22 players there is only a 2 or 3 realistic slots left. Obviously, Davies has one and Austin has another. We have an abundance of centre mids taking more of these slots.

I also think it is about age and maturity. I think it was right to keep a 16/17 year old Moore at the club training with the first team. As an 18 year old, it was fine to get out on loan because he passed some maturity tests with the club. Nothing to with his football ability. LWB is still 17 and we can see some amazing confidence on the pitch. Off the pitch none of us know whether a move out of the family home and a different lifestyle will be the making of him. It's university entry age when you think about it.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I think it's more about not discriminating against young players more than totally forgetting about considering their age. I doubt he thinks LWB is ready, but I don't think he will be looking to get rid of him bar a loan either.

Also worth considering specifically for this season with no Europe and our aspirations it is difficult to develop them in our squad. Hopefully we get some good loans for them this season....

Im more a believer that less games means more opportunities for minutes.

 

[Muttley]

Im more a believer that less games means more opportunities for minutes.

Admittedly, I'm left confused with the entire thing. We've just about seen it all in the last 2-3 years.

For me, logically the best opportunity for kids to make breakthroughs is EL/ECL campaign seasons and of course these pre-season tours that coincide with WC/Euro summers. You would also think that injury periods for the 1st team open doors but that hasn't really happened. Just ask a kid like Olusesi who sat on his hands for endless games only to come on a look like he should have been used way more for cameos.

The Elfsborg game was probably the highlight for me with Scarlett doing his thing and enabling Ajayi and Moore with assists. That was a great day for the club.

This season will be interesting. The squad is close to converging to 2 players per position. Prior to Xmas, the league cup campaign will be an opportunity for players to get a much needed 90 mins. Then as the FA Cup kicks in, we can continue with the rotation. Personally, I don't think the younger players will be that prominent though.

 

[Yiddo.1882]

It’s about 10 hours after the match and the full replay is still unavailable on Spursplay. I raised a similar issue on Wednesday, suggesting they should have anticipated the potential numbers looking to view. Given the 4am kick off today, they should have also expected a significant number of people looking to watch the replay on Sunday morning.