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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Anyone else marching tomorrow?
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Give us the details...
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
https://www.peoples-vote.uk/march
If you want to have any idea what's going on in Parliament Square, get as close to Hyde Park Corner as you can before the march starts. There's no way at all that everyone will fit in, it was backed up Whitehall in June and that was with only about 100,000 people. It will be much bigger this time.
Personally, I can live without the speeches, so will either pick up with Best for Britain people who I know slightly or bring the dog and join the Wooferendum section which is bringing up the rear.
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ges-government-to-put-brakes-on-a3966296.html
I feel so sorry because it’s a situation that should be dealt with by people who have all the information, who know the reality. If people are for or against Brexit, they manipulate everything.
“It’s so unfair to put the responsibility on the people because there are consequences. We said Brexit, we bought into an idea. But afterwards, who suffers? We don’t know.
“If someone told you it would be good for my family, for myself and then the consequences are different [to expected], you are the guilty one. That’s what I don’t like. If I am responsible for picking a starting XI, I need to take the responsibility — I cannot ask the fans who should play.
“And I know the consequences if I don’t pick right and a get a good result. It’s such an important a decision and after two and a half years, 99 per cent of the people of this country still don’t know if it’s good [to be] in or out.”
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“We don’t know if another referendum will be good or bad,” he said. “If I need to vote in or out [again], I still don’t know what the best decision for us will be. If you’re going to vote, it’s because you believe it will be good for you, for the people you love and your friends, country, everyone. But after two and a half years, we still don’t know.”
I feel so sorry because it’s a situation that should be dealt with by people who have all the information, who know the reality. If people are for or against Brexit, they manipulate everything.
“It’s so unfair to put the responsibility on the people because there are consequences. We said Brexit, we bought into an idea. But afterwards, who suffers? We don’t know.
“If someone told you it would be good for my family, for myself and then the consequences are different [to expected], you are the guilty one. That’s what I don’t like. If I am responsible for picking a starting XI, I need to take the responsibility — I cannot ask the fans who should play.
“And I know the consequences if I don’t pick right and a get a good result. It’s such an important a decision and after two and a half years, 99 per cent of the people of this country still don’t know if it’s good [to be] in or out.”
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“We don’t know if another referendum will be good or bad,” he said. “If I need to vote in or out [again], I still don’t know what the best decision for us will be. If you’re going to vote, it’s because you believe it will be good for you, for the people you love and your friends, country, everyone. But after two and a half years, we still don’t know.”
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Cheers. If I make it, I'll look out for a Jeoff Goldbloom look alike
...might clash with the game tomorrow! Priorities!
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ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Say what you like about Osborne, he's going balls out to support the march. Trying to get Poch to say something concrete may have been a hiding to nothing, but good try.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
I'll look out for a Jeoff Goldbloom look alike
...might class with the game tomorrow! Priorities!
Yes, it's slightly annoying. Can watch a stream on the phone, though.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
Yes, it's slightly annoying. Can watch a stream on the phone, though.
Or get their early and leave - excuse the pun - by 2!
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
MoPo! He's smart you know.
No one, even those running the leave and remain campaigns truely knew the full implications of Brexit. The Irish issue - now the biggest obsticle - was not seriously discuss until after the vote. UKIP were all for the Norway model pre-vote etc. In a global world with people and trade flying around, and stable ballanced borders brought about by years of peace, one vote on seemingly 'an issue' turned out to include a myraid of complex things; few of which related to what people were motivated to vote for - controlling imigration.
That our politiicans are now not brave enough to stand up for what is right, identify and articulate what is important, and stop trying to deliver some kind of basterised Brexit so they can say 'here we did it, we delivierd the will of the people' just shows how gutless they are.
I remember Major and Blair sharing a platform somewhere in N. Ireland on that very issue. It was covered, but either ignored or responded to with "it'll be alright on the night" type of language, which is the stock response to any possible negative outcomes being highlighted. That or "project fear."
nelto
Andy Sinton
and London buses, Aircraft manufacture, pharmaceuticals, oil rig servicing, offshore manufacturing - wind farm assembly, etc, IT sector, film industry, and a massive boost in tourism leading to new hotels, restaurants and bars. Belfast is thriving at the moment. And I can afford a Spurs season ticket https://www.investni.com/invest-in-northern-ireland/key-facts-and-figures.html
GB You've gotten me to bite against my better judgement. I wish you'd give it a rest on NI. Maybe come over for a visit and see our squalor for yourself. I'm happy living here rather than Redcar, Toxteth, Haringey, Govan or many other places in England or Scotland. If some believe that a sudden move to a United Ireland is a panacea to all our ills then they are sadly mistaken. We have relative peace here now and there is no way I want to go through another 'Troubles', because it certainly won't be all friendly handshakes over pints of Guinness. I don't want Brexit, I wish that that idiot Cameron hadn't allowed it to happen in first place. I hope that the Government and Europe can come up with something that works, and avoids any trouble from Republicans (if there is a hard border) or disaffected Loyalists (if NI is detached from UK sovereignty in someway).
There is no seemingly no easy solution and glib statements don't help.
I don't think anyone has suggested a united Ireland will make the problems go away, merely that it will make them no longer our problems.
https://www.investni.com/invest-in-northern-ireland/key-facts-and-figures.html
GB You've gotten me to bite against my better judgement. I wish you'd give it a rest on NI. Maybe come over for a visit and see our squalor for yourself. I'm happy living here rather than Redcar, Toxteth, Haringey, Govan or many other places in England or Scotland. If some believe that a sudden move to a United Ireland is a panacea to all our ills then they are sadly mistaken. We have relative peace here now and there is no way I want to go through another 'Troubles', because it certainly won't be all friendly handshakes over pints of Guinness. I don't want Brexit, I wish that that idiot Cameron hadn't allowed it to happen in first place. I hope that the Government and Europe can come up with something that works, and avoids any trouble from Republicans (if there is a hard border) or disaffected Loyalists (if NI is detached from UK sovereignty in someway).
There is no seemingly no easy solution and glib statements don't help.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
https://www.investni.com/invest-in-northern-ireland/key-facts-and-figures.html
GB You've gotten me to bite against my better judgement. I wish you'd give it a rest on NI. Maybe come over for a visit and see our squalor for yourself. I'm happy living here rather than Redcar, Toxteth, Haringey, Govan or many other places in England or Scotland. If some believe that a sudden move to a United Ireland is a panacea to all our ills then they are sadly mistaken. We have relative peace here now and there is no way I want to go through another 'Troubles', because it certainly won't be all friendly handshakes over pints of Guinness. I don't want Brexit, I wish that that idiot Cameron hadn't allowed it to happen in first place. I hope that the Government and Europe can come up with something that works, and avoids any trouble from Republicans (if there is a hard border) or disaffected Loyalists (if NI is detached from UK sovereignty in someway).
There is no seemingly no easy solution and glib statements don't help.
I've been to NI quite a bit and am fond of it.
My point is that its a rural place. It has the lowest wages in the UK and a youth brain drain. I'd compare it much more to Cornwall/SW England - i.e. its more never-industrialised, rather than post-industrial. And hence isn't especially ripe to become some Hong Kong type 'two systems one country' place.
I do think it's current status - falling between two stalls - is largely the cause of its poverty. Historically it was one of the richest parts of Ireland, now it's poorer than RoI. The British aren't going to invest when it's medium term heading back to Ireland
nelto
Andy Sinton
Pragmatism from a little Englander point of view is to have a border poll and hope it goes the way of a united Ireland. Never mind the lives of a few million people, North and South, being severely disrupted. Not your problem...
If the island is unified, then the SNP will be shouting for another referendum and they may well win a new one. No more UK, again not a problem for those who don't care.
Over stating poverty time and again is tiresome. Every part of the UK has a level of poverty that isn't much less than NI. ROI is a rural society as well, also with some level of poverty. ROI has benefited hugely from the EU and good luck to them in that. The UK can easily afford to keep and invest in NI.
It may well be the case that a Hong Kong scenario may work, we don't know yet, it hasn't happened. But ROI and NI sitting between the UK and EU could lead to fantastic benefits. Mainland business might see it as a backdoor into Europe and ROI still needs it's trade and ties with the UK.
If the island is unified, then the SNP will be shouting for another referendum and they may well win a new one. No more UK, again not a problem for those who don't care.
Over stating poverty time and again is tiresome. Every part of the UK has a level of poverty that isn't much less than NI. ROI is a rural society as well, also with some level of poverty. ROI has benefited hugely from the EU and good luck to them in that. The UK can easily afford to keep and invest in NI.
It may well be the case that a Hong Kong scenario may work, we don't know yet, it hasn't happened. But ROI and NI sitting between the UK and EU could lead to fantastic benefits. Mainland business might see it as a backdoor into Europe and ROI still needs it's trade and ties with the UK.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
It isn't the wasteland GB ffs. It is not like factories can't be built if the investment is there. They even have electricity !!! If NI stays in the CU and SM imagine the boost to their economy that would be. The attitude to NI as you have framed it and indeed scara in his previous post, shown exactly how the province has been viewed by brexiters to date. It is nothing more than a lever in the negotiation.
Not so much a lever as an annoyance.
On principle, I'd prefer to keep any part of the world that considers itself part of the UK as a part of the UK. But if the government of NI continues to refuse to have a border on either side, then that principle stretches less far than my wallet does.
Principles are nice, but cars, holidays, clothes, food, toys for my son, etc are far nicer.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
My case in point.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Spurs flag among the thousands upon thousands on Park Lane. So someone else is missing the match today.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Generally I'm embarrassed about Northern Ireland. Embarrassed about Oliver Cromwell and 400 years of colonialism. I'd like to see those wrongs finally righted. Scotland too really.
I think the British Isles will become a much more harmonious place when it's something more akin to Scandinavia - 4 equal and independent countries, rather than the sort of last remnants of an English empire that it currently is
I think the British Isles will become a much more harmonious place when it's something more akin to Scandinavia - 4 equal and independent countries, rather than the sort of last remnants of an English empire that it currently is