ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Do you have a link for her saying that?
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Do you have a link for her saying that?
All I can find online is her objection to the Government not seeking assurances re. the death penalty not being used. I don't see any objections, from her, to them spending life in prison, either in the USA or here. I can find similar statements from Tory and Lib Dem politicians too. Opposition to the death penalty is bi-partisan in the UK.
Even the mother of one of the victims of these men is against the death penalty for them. She could be on crack too I suppose.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
So what if it is bi-partisan in the UK? The Syrians handed them over to the US and the US judicial system might stick them on death row, they didnt come back to the UK and we sent them over there to get harsher punishment. Should we go out our way to intervene on the US system for a couple of w@nkers who knew the dangers of defecting to ISIS and killing people in the name of a holy war, and if they didnt know the dangers that might result in 1 - Death in war 2 - Death Row 3 - life in prision is that our fault?
Give them the chair as far as I am concerned,
Diane Abbott the most liberal non liberal in the world.
Diane Abbott isn't saying anything that politicians on all sides haven't said, namely that our government should seek assurances over these people not getting the death penalty, as that's our policy as a country. Dominic Grieve said similar and he's a Tory and an ex Attorney General -- possibly another crackhead. Nobody is objecting to them getting tried and spending life in prison.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
If you are looking for assurances that they dont get the death penalty based on where they are being tried (its their law) and based on their crimes....Then yes you are on crack as is those you have mentioned before you.
If they were caught by the Iraqis like 100 ISIS the other month they would have been executed and the 21 ISIL who were hung by Iraqi trial in June. We didnt call them out and say our bi-partisan views in the UK means we don't agree with your local means of law inforcement so why should we with the states? And you will say "they are British" but they lost that right when they defected to Syria and lobbed off peoples heads.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
No-one is saying they are British, or arguing against the withdrawal of citizenship.
The issue is solely about the terms on which we hand over information which helps the prosecution. We normally do that only on the assurance that the death penalty won't be sought. There is statute to back that up, which is why everyone from Abbott to Tory peers is alarmed.
The US has the option to try them in a state which doesn't have the death penalty, which is what they'd normally do if vital evidence was subject to those assurances.
Still waiting for your link to Abbott saying something different, @Grays_1890
The issue is solely about the terms on which we hand over information which helps the prosecution. We normally do that only on the assurance that the death penalty won't be sought. There is statute to back that up, which is why everyone from Abbott to Tory peers is alarmed.
The US has the option to try them in a state which doesn't have the death penalty, which is what they'd normally do if vital evidence was subject to those assurances.
Still waiting for your link to Abbott saying something different, @Grays_1890
That's your opinion -- but you singled out Abbott when, in actual fact, she is sticking to the consensus on this issue. So it's not some looney-left crackhead thing, it's an accepted political norm that we employ as a country.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Well she was the most vocal on the subject as she usually is on most things. The facts are she is a loony left crackhead or people would be voting here and Corbyn of the Tooting Popular front in to run the country.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
She's shadow home secretary and she was responding to a statement by Javid, so it's not very surprising that she spoke at length in the Commons and was widely quoted.
I'm not a fan of Abbott. She's one of the many reasons I'm no longer a paid-up Labour supporter. But some of her detractors seem to be disturbingly eager to abuse her and it's difficult to see that as solely rooted in ideological difference.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
What is it then?
As @ShipOfGoldblum has said, she's Shadow Home Secretary. So it is exactly her job to respond to Javid, the Home Secretary.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Of course and its political par for the course to disagree with actions for political gain, I don't agree with her though. I think Javid has played a blinder
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
You'd need an expert intersectionalist to unpack it properly.
Absolutely. Though I do think she would disagree with Javid on this issue regardless. Whether he has played a blinder or not, perhaps. I'm sure that most people more inclined to vote Tory won't be unhappy with him, so in that respect, he's done alright.
I'm not going to shed any tears should these two terrorists get a lethal injection. But I do think it is fair enough for our politicians to hold the government to account, whatever party they are in. If we have established norms and the government is seen to be bucking them, people are entitled to ask questions.
This was my personal view on it, a page or so back:
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
Are you trying to say that most peoples view on Diane Abbott are based on race rather than the fact she ruine any chance of labour winning the last election because she could not count to ten and got pulled off the race?
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
No, I said it was intersectional. She's black, female and working class, and you can't explain the venom she attracts disproportionately to her fellow naive, over-promoted Trots and tankies without considering the interplay between all of those factors.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
We don't the US do and so therefore I don't see how its an issue for us other than the fact they are British. The fact is the band formally known as Jihadiwaddy or the beatles or whatever they called themselves should have read the T&Cs of where their actions would take them? Had their hide out been stormed and killed on the battle field I doubt there would be much out pouring of grief and I maintain that stance now.
If they do get the hard punishment the theory of UK views on the death penalty will be put to the test, if you and your mate on here are right I expect no less than out pourings of rage and tears from the UK, however I expect not. This isnt the Green Mile
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Yep. Give epileptic toddlers a life-saving bong with one hand, stick jihadists with lethal injections with another. In both cases, look very different from his last two Home Office predecessors. He knows exactly what he's up to, and what the base is he's targeting.
ShipOfTheseus
Clint Dempsey
Because they are asking to admit UK-originated intelligence and information into the evidential process.
She does get disproportionately slated, I agree. She's said some stupid things in the past and can come across badly. But she did vote against the Iraq War and flagged up problems that would lead to the Windrush scandal, at the time the government was making those policy changes. So she's got a lot more sense than people give her credit for, like her or not.