• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

galeforce said:
If only the ONS had published such information...
Click to expand...

I don't think that it would have made any difference. Project fear was just a blanket dismissal used by the leave campaign used to ignore any evidence that was detrimental to their argument or to avoid discussion around the risks of leaving the EU. It did not matter where the evidence came from, the blanket dismissal was used.
 
milo said:
I don't think that it would have made any difference. Project fear was just a blanket dismissal used by the leave campaign used to ignore any evidence that was detrimental to their argument or to avoid discussion around the risks of leaving the EU. It did not matter where the evidence came from, the blanket dismissal was used.
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic, they’ve been shouting it from the rooftops for years.

I could make an equally sarcastic (and rhetorical) allusion to the wide scale desire to reduce immigration amongst certain demographics.
 
I actually feel sorry for May. Yes she's weak, indecisive and not a natural leader but she has no options. Her party remain divided. The in the customs union vs out of it has become the new battle lines for anti and pro EU Tories. Moreover, May's been tasked with a wishy washy mandate to 'leave the EU' which was built largely on lies. For example that the UK will prosper outside the customs union, when ALL of the evidence shows the UK will suffer financially. May is not in a position to negotiate on an even footing with the massive EU block, why did anyone think (and continue to think) that we could? Yet the deluded (or lying) politicians who said it'd be easy to dictate terms to the EU remain in key positions in government and this brexit process, undermining pragmatic realism. Why have they not been pulled up on their inaccuracies? However, is May as bad as she's made out, or actually doing a fair job picking a way through the impossibilities of 'Brexit'?

You could argue that a more staunch PM, a more extreme one way or the other PM - out the customs union on in it - would actually bring things to a head quicker. We'd get another general election quicker and the UK could address. Maybe May's greatest criticism is that she's just about keeping a lid on it all, so perpetuating an impossible position which will, at one point or another, come to head.


France wants our city jobs. It's become clear that Frankfurt is a dull boring place to be. Paris is London's natural successor. Just as London replaced Zuric. London will still retain its old institutions like Zuric does, but there would be a shift towards Paris over time imo. France, already overtaking the UK as the 5th largest global economy, displacing us, are exited by growing their financial services for Europe. Therefore we will not get an EU free trade deal where we can make our own trade rules etc and retain free trade of services with the EU. A number of EU nations would not be happy with it (though arguably maybe a few would). Such a deal would totally undermine the EU. It would make being out of the customs unions, better than being in. The UK would have everything good from it, and none of the downsides.

Despite these realities coming home to roost, the mad-for-it Brexiteers plough on, unable to let go of their ingrained positions and egos. The UK still has no post-brexit vision, and is suffering financially for it. We need a new vote as soon as possible.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
We need a new vote as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

Yes, but only if the franchise is extended to the over-16s, and to Britons living in the EU, and the question is multiple choice, allowing for creative interpretations of the will of the people. We can't have a re-run on the same terms with the same fudgewitted electorate and the same media and the same politicians.
 
Anyone else think the civil servants were up to no good and pushing reports to meet their own needs.

Us to stay in the EU so they can go and work there for a couple of years and pick up westminster and an EU pension.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I actually feel sorry for May. Yes she's weak, indecisive and not a natural leader but she has no options. Her party remain divided. The in the customs union vs out of it has become the new battle lines for anti and pro EU Tories. Moreover, May's been tasked with a wishy washy mandate to 'leave the EU' which was built largely on lies. For example that the UK will prosper outside the customs union, when ALL of the evidence shows the UK will suffer financially. May is not in a position to negotiate on an even footing with the massive EU block, why did anyone think (and continue to think) that we could? Yet the deluded (or lying) politicians who said it'd be easy to dictate terms to the EU remain in key positions in government and this brexit process, undermining pragmatic realism. Why have they not been pulled up on their inaccuracies? However, is May as bad as she's made out, or actually doing a fair job picking a way through the impossibilities of 'Brexit'?

You could argue that a more staunch PM, a more extreme one way or the other PM - out the customs union on in it - would actually bring things to a head quicker. We'd get another general election quicker and the UK could address. Maybe May's greatest criticism is that she's just about keeping a lid on it all, so perpetuating an impossible position which will, at one point or another, come to head.


France wants our city jobs. It's become clear that Frankfurt is a dull boring place to be. Paris is London's natural successor. Just as London replaced Zuric. London will still retain its old institutions like Zuric does, but there would be a shift towards Paris over time imo. France, already overtaking the UK as the 5th largest global economy, displacing us, are exited by growing their financial services for Europe. Therefore we will not get an EU free trade deal where we can make our own trade rules etc and retain free trade of services with the EU. A number of EU nations would not be happy with it (though arguably maybe a few would). Such a deal would totally undermine the EU. It would make being out of the customs unions, better than being in. The UK would have everything good from it, and none of the downsides.

Despite these realities coming home to roost, the mad-for-it Brexiteers plough on, unable to let go of their ingrained positions and egos. The UK still has no post-brexit vision, and is suffering financially for it. We need a new vote as soon as possible.
Click to expand...


That would be the most explosive thing that has happened in this country since the end of the Long Parliament. You'd literally be telling people that democracy could be overruled by the powerful, and that there's no peaceful means of stopping society from being crushed under the heels of neo-liberal globalisation. It would be a death knell for liberal democracy.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Well Jacob Rees-Mogg certainly does, which is surely a pretty good indication of a duff theory.
Click to expand...

Didn't he (wisely) advise investors to move assets away from UK based companies due to Brexit? Project fear, a big conspiracy, or just someone behaving rationally after weighing things up? As he's a stanuch Leave campaigner I suggest the latter.
 
Gutter Boy said:
That would be the most explosive thing that has happened in this country since the end of the Long Parliament. You'd literally be telling people that democracy could be overruled by the powerful, and that there's no peaceful means of stopping society from being crushed under the heels of neo-liberal globalisation. It would be a death knell for liberal democracy.
Click to expand...

You are saying that a vote by the people is undemocratic? Okay. :)

All well and good rolling out catch phrase terms like neo-liberal globalisation. It doesn't mean anything in isolation. Within the term are all manner of complexities, with many many good things for people and society. Democracy is also very much part of of the neo-liberal reality, so to conflate the two - democracy against neoliberalism - is just the tip of this oversimplification.
 
r-u-s-x said:
that's not really true is it? It seems to be the current opinion of Brexiters who do not like what the report has said.

In fact Baxter is about to offer apologies for voicing this.
Click to expand...
Haven't read the news on it since yesterday, but it had been confirmed but not attributed by another 2 or 3 people at that point.

Apologising for voicing it is not the same as saying he made it up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back