Politics, politics, politics

[the dza]

I'd imagine the Conservatives would be even more reluctant to do that than to call a load of by-elections.

True, but then the government risks storing up hate down the road, and a big beating at the next general election anyway.

Still, I bet May never thought she'd wish everyone would go back to talking about Brexit!

 

[scaramanga]

True, but then the government risks storing up hate down the road, and a big beating at the next general election anyway.

Still, I bet May never thought she'd wish everyone would go back to talking about Brexit!

I can't imagine she has much of a planning horizon right now. If she does she's more of a fool than I thought.

 

[Gutter Boy]

What's the deal with the process here? It's not something I've ever considered. In theory, each deposed MP should lead to a by-election. Is there a number at which an election should/must be called?

Even if the Conservatives turn out to be the lesser offenders here, it's not good news for them. No sitting party wants by-elections, they always trend towards the opposition.

I do wonder though, if in order to be able to build up a history of bad behaviour like this, the seats those MPs are in have to be fairly safe ones. If so, it might not change the numbers at all.

I think you can only currently recall an MP if they've done something illegal or fiddled their expenses. You can't for other misconduct/behaviour matters.

My MP has currently been kicked out of the Labour party, but unless he resigns, he will sit as a zombie independent for the next 4 years.

 

[Gutter Boy]

True, but then the government risks storing up hate down the road, and a big beating at the next general election anyway.

It is pretty crap having a disgraced MP sitting around doing bugger all

Here's the enlightening story of mine: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ft-ideology-trump-an-mp-s-character-1-8826439

 

[scaramanga]

I think you can only currently recall an MP if they've done something illegal or fiddled their expenses. You can't for other misconduct/behaviour matters.

My MP has currently been kicked out of the Labour party, but unless he resigns, he will sit as a zombie independent for the next 4 years.

I don't think the public will stand for that - not on this kind of issue. I think (hope) anyone with decent evidence against them will have to stand down.

 

[the dza]

It is pretty crap having a disgraced MP sitting around doing bugger all

Here's the enlightening story of mine: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ft-ideology-trump-an-mp-s-character-1-8826439

I think the law should be changed so that, if an MP loses the whip or defects to another party, there should automatically be a by-election.

 

[scaramanga]

I think the law should be changed so that, if an MP loses the whip or defects to another party, there should automatically be a by-election.

That goes against how our system works though. We don't vote for a party, we vote for an MP - just because they're mostly a bit shoddy at looking after local interests, doesn't mean we're not still voting for them individually.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

https://order-order.com/2017/10/29/tory-aides-spreadsheet-names-36-sex-pest-mps/

Tory aides have compiled a spreadsheet accusing 36 serving Conservative MPs of inappropriate sexual behaviour, Guido can reveal. The dossier includes specific allegations against MPs, including one minister who is “handsy with women at parties”, an MP on the government payroll who had “sexual relations with a researcher”, one backbencher who is “perpetually intoxicated and very inappropriate with women”, and another who allegedly “paid a woman to be quiet”. It was produced by a number of current and former Tory staffers in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal.

_______

I'm sure there are plenty more on all sides of the house -- but this could, potentially, do interesting things to the Parliamentary arithmetic. Another general election might be sooner then we think.

Good, then I can vote Corby and then retire from all political discussions. I would like us to pull out of the EU, but about a month after the result I realised it would never happen. Which I actually think will store up bigger problems down the road, but as I wont be alive, fudge do i care.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Good, then I can vote Corby and then retire from all political discussions. I would like us to pull out of the EU, but about a month after the result I realised it would never happen. Which I actually think will store up bigger problems down the road, but as I wont be alive, fudge do i care.

You think we're not coming out?

I'll have a sportsman's bet with you on that.

Brexit means Brexit.

 

[the dza]

That goes against how our system works though. We don't vote for a party, we vote for an MP - just because they're mostly a bit shoddy at looking after local interests, doesn't mean we're not still voting for them individually.

The MP still stands for the manifesto of his/her party. If the MP then leaves the party, they have in effect changed the terms on which people voted for them. Asking that MP to stand again does not go against our system imo, it strengthens it -- either the constituents re-affirm their vote for the MP and vote for them again, or they vote for a different candidate who more aligns with their politics (via the Party they are standing for).

 

[glasgowspur]

https://order-order.com/2017/10/29/tory-aides-spreadsheet-names-36-sex-pest-mps/

Tory aides have compiled a spreadsheet accusing 36 serving Conservative MPs of inappropriate sexual behaviour, Guido can reveal. The dossier includes specific allegations against MPs, including one minister who is “handsy with women at parties”, an MP on the government payroll who had “sexual relations with a researcher”, one backbencher who is “perpetually intoxicated and very inappropriate with women”, and another who allegedly “paid a woman to be quiet”. It was produced by a number of current and former Tory staffers in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal.

_______

I'm sure there are plenty more on all sides of the house -- but this could, potentially, do interesting things to the Parliamentary arithmetic. Another general election might be sooner then we think.

So one had "sexual relations with a researcher", unless said researcher was unwilling, that's not really an issue is it? At least not if they are using HW as the yard stick

 

[Gutter Boy]

So one had "sexual relations with a researcher", unless said researcher was unwilling, that's not really an issue is it? At least not if they are using HW as the yard stick

Stephen Crabb seems a bit hard done by (according to what has come out). He sent some texts and went on a few dates with someone 3 years older than the age of consent.

I'm quite French in my attitude to this kind of thing. If it's consenting adults then go for your guns. Affairs, age difference relations, straight or/and gay, S&M - whatever.

 

[the dza]

So one had "sexual relations with a researcher", unless said researcher was unwilling, that's not really an issue is it? At least not if they are using HW as the yard stick

I agree. If consenting adults want to shag each other, that's up to them. I don't think that kind of thing will necessarily hurt a politician at the moment. But the ones who have sexually harassed/assaulted people, that will probably be the end for them in the current climate.

 

[glasgowspur]

I agree. If consenting adults want to shag each other, that's up to them. I don't think that kind of thing will necessarily hurt a politician at the moment. But the ones who have sexually harassed/assaulted people, that will probably be the end for them in the current climate.

And rightly so, but the scatter guns that are going off just now will hurt a few innocent people.

 

[monkeybarry]

Process wise, it is possible for a the Tories to lose their majority but they would continue to Govern as a minority Gov.

However the official opposition could table a vote of non confidence, which would go to the house to vote on. Officially, assuming that motion is upheld, it would then be for Labour to approach the Queen to form a Government. (Although officially the Gov could ignore the motion as opposition motions can be ignored).

The reality is, a vote of non confidence would trigger an election.

 

[monkeybarry]

So one had "sexual relations with a researcher", unless said researcher was unwilling, that's not really an issue is it? At least not if they are using HW as the yard stick

It's more the middle area where "consent" is more "obligation" and "necessary" to keep your job. That's not illegal, but it is unbecoming of public office.

 

[glasgowspur]

And that's a really big leap you're taking there.
Out of the four mentioned, 3 are clearly wrong and the reader is left in no doubt of that.
The fourth, the one I'm questioning, is described with a phrase that can and does suggest a normal sexual relationship.
So if it's not why use such a term? Why not state their offence as they have done with the other 3?
I would also counter that what you're suggesting is not only the worst of the 4 but possibly illegal, so why shy away from it?

It's more the middle area where "consent" is more "obligation" and "necessary" to keep your job. That's not illegal, but it is unbecoming of public office.

 

[monkeybarry]

And that's a really big leap you're taking there.
Out of the four mentioned, 3 are clearly wrong and the reader is left in no doubt of that.
The fourth, the one I'm questioning, is described with a phrase that can and does suggest a normal sexual relationship.
So if it's not why use such a term? Why not state their offence as they have done with the other 3?
I would also counter that what you're suggesting is not only the worst of the 4 but possibly illegal, so why shy away from it?

Fair point re; my giant leap.
Slightly tired post and lacking proper context.
I meant to say I wasn't refering specifically to the cases mentioned and that an area of concern is that middle ground I outlined.
"Obligatory" was also the wrong word. Maybe something more like "beneficial".

My greater concern is more that staff move jobs between MPs and such previous relationships open up the possibility of impartiality.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Most major corporations have rules regarding work place relationships due to the potential imbalance of power, especially if one of the parties are more senior than the other. I would expect MPs to be held to a higher standard (or at least the same) ditto inappropriate work place behavior.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Most major corporations have rules regarding work place relationships due to the potential imbalance of power, especially if one of the parties are more senior than the other. I would expect MPs to be held to a higher standard (or at least the same) ditto inappropriate work place behavior.

Most organisations I've been around only have a conflict of interest declarations - i.e. you need to let people know if one person has influence over the others' pay and progression etc. That's sensible