• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

scaramanga said:
That's very interesting. The mention of case law suggests that it will be too late now to ever put it into action.
Click to expand...

Case law, is law, so it could be put into action.

It would have been sensible for Cameron to have pushed for it to be codified, so that this was transparent but it wouldn't have made any difference legally.

I cannot remember the period of time but if I was staying in the Czech Republic over a certain period, I would have to go to a police station and register. It would have been reasonably easy to put a similar scheme in place here and may not have required an ID scheme.
 
scaramanga said:
Guardian and Telegraph do it a lot - especially when reporting on something like the events on Big Brother. It's a way of getting the publicity from a story without being seen as lowering oneself to that level
Click to expand...
But not as a report right? more look how mail have reported this story. Here they have just lifted the quotes and story and packaged it up themselves
 
milo said:
Case law, is law, so it could be put into action.

It would have been sensible for Cameron to have pushed for it to be codified, so that this was transparent but it wouldn't have made any difference legally.

I cannot remember the period of time but if I was staying in the Czech Republic over a certain period, I would have to go to a police station and register. It would have been reasonably easy to put a similar scheme in place here and may not have required an ID scheme.
Click to expand...
Ah, my misunderstanding. The way it's written suggests that the case law is diverging from that initial state.
 
scaramanga said:
And their interpretation is in line with his initial statements about FoM?

That's very good news if true
Click to expand...

It will be in line with what was written. I cannot see there being any desire for the EU to change it, the interpretation will suit national governments and changing it would require treaty change (and ratification).
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ateral-offer-for-eu-citizens-rights-last-june

Theresa May was the sole cabinet minister to block a unilateral offer to EU citizens that they could remain in Britain in the days following the referendum, according to an editorial in the London Evening Standard.

The paper, edited by former chancellor George Osborne, reports that David Cameron had prepared an offer to give EU citizens certainty in the days following the referendum result last June.

Cameron had already resigned and a leadership contest was under way in the Conservative party, but May and Osborne were still in post as chancellor and home secretary.

“Last June, in the days immediately after the referendum, David Cameron wanted to reassure EU citizens they would be allowed to stay,” the paper said. “All his cabinet agreed with that unilateral offer, except his home secretary, Mrs May, who insisted on blocking it.”

During the leadership election campaign, May’s rivals Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom both pledged that EU citizens would be guaranteed the right to remain, which was not echoed by May. She went on to win the leadership after her fellow frontrunner Leadsom quit the race following a damaging interview on May’s childlessness.

But speakng at a press conference at the EU council meeting in Brussels, May, when asked about the Standard story, said: “That is not my recollection”. She went on to stress her long-held view that any promise to EU citizens must be matched by protections for British citizens.

One former senior minister told the Guardian they didn’t recollect any discussion of the issue around the cabinet table at the time.

On Thursday, almost a year on from the referendum, May made what she described as a “fair and generous” offer to EU citizens at the summit.
The offer, which has been condemned as inadequate by EU leaders and residents, would give EU citizens already in the UK – and those who arrive lawfully during a subsequent “grace period” – the opportunity to build up five years’ worth of residence which would entitle them to “settled status” and the same rights as British citizens, which they will maintain for life.

Support groups for EU citizens in Britain have criticised the long delay and uncertainty faced by families and workers in the UK, who are unsure of their immigration status following Brexit.

The paper said May was unlikely to have the parliamentary numbers in the House of Commons to carry out her threat to withdraw the offer unless reciprocal arrangements were guaranteed for UK citizens.

_____________________________________________________

Perhaps this confirms that, with May as leader, immigration control will be prioritised above everything else re. Brexit.
 
the dza said:
Perhaps this confirms that, with May as leader, immigration control will be prioritised above everything else re. Brexit.
Click to expand...

She won't be leader by the Conservative conference but it further eats into our limited negotiating time.

I think her whole approach to Brexit has been driven by her failures at the Home Office.
 
milo said:
She won't be leader by the Conservative conference but it further eats into our limited negotiating time.

I think her whole approach to Brexit has been driven by her failures at the Home Office.
Click to expand...

Initially I was thinking that she won't last, but one thing that might keep her there is that nobody else seems to want the job right now. There's a chance she will lead us until Brexit comes to fruition, imo.
 
the dza said:
Initially I was thinking that she won't last, but one thing that might keep her there is that nobody else seems to want the job right now. There's a chance she will lead us until Brexit comes to fruition, imo.
Click to expand...

I said the same after the election, it is her only hope of staying on but I think that the Tories will want her gone because she is a liability now.

One theory I did see recently was them using her to take the Brexit bullets before getting shot of her.

It must be clear to everyone now that we are massively unprepared for these negotiations and have backed ourselves into a corner with her red lines. To get anything out of this is going to take some serious concessions/backtracking.

They could make May make those concessions early, she takes the reputational damage that entails and then jettison her for another leader who could seal some positives.

I think that the proposal on EU citizens' rights probably put paid to that theory but it is about the only good thing she could do now.
 
the dza said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ateral-offer-for-eu-citizens-rights-last-june

Theresa May was the sole cabinet minister to block a unilateral offer to EU citizens that they could remain in Britain in the days following the referendum, according to an editorial in the London Evening Standard.

The paper, edited by former chancellor George Osborne, reports that David Cameron had prepared an offer to give EU citizens certainty in the days following the referendum result last June.

Cameron had already resigned and a leadership contest was under way in the Conservative party, but May and Osborne were still in post as chancellor and home secretary.

“Last June, in the days immediately after the referendum, David Cameron wanted to reassure EU citizens they would be allowed to stay,” the paper said. “All his cabinet agreed with that unilateral offer, except his home secretary, Mrs May, who insisted on blocking it.”

During the leadership election campaign, May’s rivals Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom both pledged that EU citizens would be guaranteed the right to remain, which was not echoed by May. She went on to win the leadership after her fellow frontrunner Leadsom quit the race following a damaging interview on May’s childlessness.

But speakng at a press conference at the EU council meeting in Brussels, May, when asked about the Standard story, said: “That is not my recollection”. She went on to stress her long-held view that any promise to EU citizens must be matched by protections for British citizens.

One former senior minister told the Guardian they didn’t recollect any discussion of the issue around the cabinet table at the time.

On Thursday, almost a year on from the referendum, May made what she described as a “fair and generous” offer to EU citizens at the summit.
The offer, which has been condemned as inadequate by EU leaders and residents, would give EU citizens already in the UK – and those who arrive lawfully during a subsequent “grace period” – the opportunity to build up five years’ worth of residence which would entitle them to “settled status” and the same rights as British citizens, which they will maintain for life.

Support groups for EU citizens in Britain have criticised the long delay and uncertainty faced by families and workers in the UK, who are unsure of their immigration status following Brexit.

The paper said May was unlikely to have the parliamentary numbers in the House of Commons to carry out her threat to withdraw the offer unless reciprocal arrangements were guaranteed for UK citizens.

_____________________________________________________

Perhaps this confirms that, with May as leader, immigration control will be prioritised above everything else re. Brexit.
Click to expand...
It's a really bad idea to start giving things away before you've even sat at the negotiating table.

She doesn't get much right but that was a good call.
 
milo said:
I said the same after the election, it is her only hope of staying on but I think that the Tories will want her gone because she is a liability now.

One theory I did see recently was them using her to take the Brexit bullets before getting shot of her.

It must be clear to everyone now that we are massively unprepared for these negotiations and have backed ourselves into a corner with her red lines. To get anything out of this is going to take some serious concessions/backtracking.

They could make May make those concessions early, she takes the reputational damage that entails and then jettison her for another leader who could seal some positives.

I think that the proposal on EU citizens' rights probably put paid to that theory but it is about the only good thing she could do now.
Click to expand...

How do you see that working, timing wise?

During negotiations, surely?.........You can't let her complete negotiations (poorly) just to have someone to blame.....it's far too important for that.

BUT are any alternatives viewing it as a poisoned chalice??
 
I've given it a quick google but can't see anything.

As the largest party after the election the Tories wrote the queens speech, yes? Then there is a debate about the queen's speech followed by a vote of confidence in the new government?

My question is, has that vote happened yet? and if the tories failed the vote there'd have to be another election or Labour would get a go?
 
scaramanga said:
It's a really bad idea to start giving things away before you've even sat at the negotiating table.

She doesn't get much right but that was a good call.
Click to expand...

tickle my balls with a feather, and anyone who thinks that can be done has never sat around a negotiating table and come out a winner.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
How do you see that working, timing wise?

During negotiations, surely?.........You can't let her complete negotiations (poorly) just to have someone to blame.....it's far too important for that.

BUT are any alternatives viewing it as a poisoned chalice??
Click to expand...

Take the hits early and move on.

We haven't got enough time to conclude negotiations anyway, so we might as well ask for an extension or pause whilst we're at it but they haven't got the sense to do that.

The reality is that the government doesn't have the numbers in parliament for the course of action that it is pursuing. It is better to adjust course now and seek a consensus, than plow on to inevitable failure.
 
scaramanga said:
It's a really bad idea to start giving things away before you've even sat at the negotiating table.

She doesn't get much right but that was a good call.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's negotiation strategy that sets her agenda, she has shown in most respects that she isn't very good at it (ask the DUP). What made her come to that decision is her obsession with immigration, which chimes with many who voted to leave the EU. It's also quite comical in that by obsessing over immigration while home secretary, she failed to meet her own targets and as a kicker, gave those same targets again as a manifesto pledge in the election just gone!

Again I say, with May as leader, immigration will be the focus of Brexit. As a result, I think a hard brexit is a likely outcome if she leads us through the negotiations...unless parliament divert that course, in which case she would surely then resign.
 
7percent said:
I've given it a quick google but can't see anything.

As the largest party after the election the Tories wrote the queens speech, yes? Then there is a debate about the queen's speech followed by a vote of confidence in the new government?

My question is, has that vote happened yet? and if the tories failed the vote there'd have to be another election or Labour would get a go?
Click to expand...

I think the vote is next week.

If it's voted down I'm not sure what happens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back