Politics, politics, politics

[milo]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

But thats the thing Milo I cant agree with any of the parties. I know I should vote and the parties all have parts that I wont agree with but the are such major faults with all of them that I can not agree.

At least in local elections I can vote for a good indie and European elections are easy UKIP for me. But I do not want to vote for them in the general election.

I think that anyone who agrees with all of a party's policies is a bit weird.

Voting for me is weighing up a combination of who I most agree with and who has the best chance of beating someone I don't.

Unfortunately, if you do not vote, whoever wins takes your abstention as support of their mandate.

 

[Notmegov]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Vote green as a left wing back lash to the rising fascist right, or some thing like that.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

While I somewhat agree with the sentiment that change is needed in politics, whenever people talk of 'revolution' (peaceful or otherwise) it should rapidly become clear that not everyone wants to see the same type of change. Non-voters are just as diverse as voters, compare a hardcore left wing anti-politics activist like Russell Brand to the kind of anti-politics non-voter that UKIP is attracting.

I also hate it when people complain about politics because 'nothing ever changes'. What they really mean is that they likely hold a minority view on certain issues and the people they voted for were unable to change anything. I'm pretty damn laissez-faire but I understand that my views do not enjoy significant support from voters, therefore it would be ludicrous for me to complain that I didn't get the kind of economic system I wanted after voting. The same is true for Brand, he wants the kind of left wing policies that the British people have no appetite for, then complains that voting is pointless when he doesn't get it.

I think you've misinterpreted me but fair enough. Have you read Brand's latest book?

 

[NWND]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Vote green as a left wing back lash to the rising fascist right, or some thing like that.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk

Dismissing the rising UKIP support as fascist right wingers is a sneary and ignorant thing to say.

I don't want my country to be part of the European Union and I think we've allowed too much immigration into the country that doesn't benefit us and has actually directly led to crime and civil unrest and socio-economic problems.

I'm not a fascist or particularly right-wing and neither are most that vote UKIP who managed more votes than the Lib Dems at the last nationally held elections.

The fact that in British politics you have to be pigeon holed as left or right wing is another symptom of the problem.

I might be classed as right wing in terms of EU and immigration, but then my views on public services and social care are probably classed as very left wing.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I think Brand lost credibility for many who liked him when he asked young people not to vote. It's a ridiculous proposition.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Dismissing the rising UKIP support as fascist right wingers is a sneary and ignorant thing to say.

I don't want my country to be part of the European Union and I think we've allowed too much immigration into the country that doesn't benefit us and has actually directly led to crime and civil unrest and socio-economic problems.

I'm not a fascist or particularly right-wing and neither are most that vote UKIP who managed more votes than the Lib Dems at the last nationally held elections.

The fact that in British politics you have to be pigeon holed as left or right wing is another symptom of the problem.

I might be classed as right wing in terms of EU and immigration, but then my views on public services and social care are probably classed as very left wing.

Have you read the Greens manifesto? If you haven't, I think you may find yourself agreeing with a lot of their policies. Including Europe.

It's very difficult not to belittle UKIP and their support when their party members continue to behave in a manner and present views that are sneary and ignorant.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I think the Greens should be part of the TV debate. But I do think Cameron is using it as an excuse to avoid getting more attention to Farage.

 

[NWND]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Have you read the Greens manifesto? If you haven't, I think you may find yourself agreeing with a lot of their policies. Including Europe.

It's very difficult not to belittle UKIP and their support when their party members continue to behave in a manner and present views that are sneary and ignorant.

I don't agree with many of the Green's views. I think the Green's general manifesto would drastically impact my life for the negative, making it almost impossible to run a car on my salary and get to work. No way in million years I'd vote for them.

 

[NWND]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Have you read the Greens manifesto? If you haven't, I think you may find yourself agreeing with a lot of their policies. Including Europe.

It's very difficult not to belittle UKIP and their support when their party members continue to behave in a manner and present views that are sneary and ignorant.

What party members have presented views that are sneary and ignorant over and above members of any other parties?

 

[milo]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I think the Greens should be part of the TV debate. But I do think Cameron is using it as an excuse to avoid getting more attention to Farage.

The Tories will do everything to avoid there being TV debates. They feel that the debates and the surge in popularity that the Lib Dems got as a result cost them the last election. This time they are obviously concerned how Farage could benefit and he is a very difficult person to debate with because he is very difficult to land a punch on. They will also be concerned that the public view of Milliband is so low, that he could exceed expectation if he is able to string a coherent sentence together.

 

[milo]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I don't want my country to be part of the European Union and I think we've allowed too much immigration into the country that doesn't benefit us and has actually directly led to crime and civil unrest and socio-economic problems.

Out of interest what damage do you think that immigration has caused to the UK? Do you think that there have been any benefits? What crime and civil unrest do you think has been caused by immigration?

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

The Tories will do everything to avoid there being TV debates. They feel that the debates and the surge in popularity that the Lib Dems got as a result cost them the last election. This time they are obviously concerned how Farage could benefit and he is a very difficult person to debate with because he is very difficult to land a punch on. They will also be concerned that the public view of Milliband is so low, that he could exceed expectation if he is able to string a coherent sentence together.

If Cameron doesn't turn up and leaves an empty seat, for me the debate loses its value. Regardless he has way too much to lose by not turning up. He will be there. I just hope Farage gets found out when it does happen.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

What party members have presented views that are sneary and ignorant over and above members of any other parties?

A simple Google search is your friend bro. UKIP Fails, UKIP homophobic/gay flooding, UKIP racist, UKIP funny, UKIP sexism. ****, even just typing UKIP will bring up their ridiculousness. It's not one-offs, it's relentless ignorant brain-fails and disgustingly backward views. Of course there have been plenty of examples of MP's across all parties not engaging their brains when speaking in public, or presenting personal views that are not necessarily in line with their party, but not with such regularity as the Kippers. It's actually hilarious.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I don't agree with many of the Green's views. I think the Green's general manifesto would drastically impact my life for the negative, making it almost impossible to run a car on my salary and get to work. No way in million years I'd vote for them.

OK. I'm undecided on them, I'm not that fearful of my life changing so drastically though and I feel if they could improve the lives of those less fortunate than me, whilst also caring for the environment. But I understand that people struggle to care about these things (not a dig at you).

 

[monkeybarry]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

The Tories will do everything to avoid there being TV debates. They feel that the debates and the surge in popularity that the Lib Dems got as a result cost them the last election. This time they are obviously concerned how Farage could benefit and he is a very difficult person to debate with because he is very difficult to land a punch on. They will also be concerned that the public view of Milliband is so low, that he could exceed expectation if he is able to string a coherent sentence together.

I agree that is definitely the tory tactic, but what I interesting is that the lib dems may have got more publicity but actually got less seats than previously.
All the debates did for the lib dems was add an air of legitimacy when it came to forming a coalition.

The lib dems had already been gathering a good head of steam bringing in fresh faced Clegg and marketing themselves as a genuine alternative to economy destroying labour and the evil Tories.

Ukip have been doing a similar job, but have also generated a load of negative publicity also ( some of which in sure was deliberate- all publicity is good publicity etc etc)

I think we are likely to see an election that be quite hung and result in lots of cross party cooperation to get anything done.

 

[monkeybarry]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

A simple Google search is your friend bro. UKIP Fails, UKIP homophobic/gay flooding, UKIP racist, UKIP funny, UKIP sexism. ****, even just typing UKIP will bring up their ridiculousness. It's not one-offs, it's relentless ignorant brain-fails and disgustingly backward views. Of course there have been plenty of examples of MP's across all parties not engaging their brains when speaking in public, or presenting personal views that are not necessarily in line with their party, but not with such regularity as the Kippers. It's actually hilarious.

I agree with this.

They are often quite sketchy or inconsistent when it comes to policy
Even for someone that agrees with Ukip headline policies like immigration, it is difficult to see how they can be considered a reliable vote.

 

[milo]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

If Cameron doesn't turn up and leaves an empty seat, for me the debate loses its value. Regardless he has way too much to lose by not turning up. He will be there. I just hope Farage gets found out when it does happen.

Evidently Osborne has been saying privately that they will not take part in any TV debates (I will try and dig out the news stories where I read this later). There have been meetings with the broadcasters going on for the last year to try and agree the format for the debates and the Tories have kept throwing spanners in the works. The last meeting before Christmas was cancelled by the Tories at short notice. The Greens thing is just the latest smokescreen. I think that the other parties should call their bluff and agree to the Greens being included because it will be very transparent when they then come up with another reason for not participating.

 

[Richie]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

OK. I'm undecided on them, I'm not that fearful of my life changing so drastically though and I feel if they could improve the lives of those less fortunate than me, whilst also caring for the environment. But I understand that people struggle to care about these things (not a dig at you).

I'd never vote for the Greens in a million years but it comes across very dismissive of other political views to imply that people won't vote for the Greens because they don't care about helping the less fortunate. That may not have been your intention but that's how it came across when I read that.

An example of a horrible policy from them is a maximum wage of 10x the minimum wage (currently £131k). Goodbye all Premiership and Championship quality footballers, hell goodbye to pretty much any sport, entertainment or multi-national company headquarters. Hell, £131k is less than a lot of civil servants earn. One of the more ludicrous policies I've ever heard

 

[Richie]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

Evidently Osborne has been saying privately that they will not take part in any TV debates (I will try and dig out the news stories where I read this later). There have been meetings with the broadcasters going on for the last year to try and agree the format for the debates and the Tories have kept throwing spanners in the works. The last meeting before Christmas was cancelled by the Tories at short notice. The Greens thing is just the latest smokescreen. I think that the other parties should call their bluff and agree to the Greens being included because it will be very transparent when they then come up with another reason for not participating.

Agreed the Greens argument is clearly a smokescreen, I personally agree with Ofcom I don't think their case for inclusion is legitimate.

I've already made up my mind that I won't vote Tory if Cameron doesn't attend the debates. I'm certainly not voting Labour which would leave the Lib Dems, UKIP or spoiling my ballot.

 

[AuroRaman]

Re: European Elections, UKIP Tops British Polls

I'd never vote for the Greens in a million years but it comes across very dismissive of other political views to imply that people won't vote for the Greens because they don't care about helping the less fortunate. That may not have been your intention but that's how it came across when I read that.

An example of a horrible policy from them is a maximum wage of I think 100x the minimum wage. Goodbye all Premiership and Championship quality footballers, hell goodbye to pretty much any sport, entertainment or multi-national company headquarters. One of the more ludicrous policies I've ever heard

My apologies, reading that back it does sound like that and wasn't my intention. To clarify, the last part was more in line with their views on protecting the environment. Someone like myself is enamoured by that but I totally get why others would not see that as a priority and feel other areas need to be addressed more urgently.

Yes I am aware of the minimum wage and it is a stupid policy! They have a few more which I absolutely do not agree with and which make me struggle to give them my vote. I can see their intentions with the wage model, as a way of trying to eradicate disparity, but I just can't see how it can work. I don't think we have the same issues here with disparity as the U.S. have either.

Also, even the policies I agree with from the Greens are difficult to imagine being put into practice. Lastly, if you asked me to name you two Green MP's I wouldn't be able to answer!

In the past there has always been a political figure who at least gave me some sparks of inspiration, but right now I look at party leaders and prominent MP's and just sigh.