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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Finney Is Back said:
Responsible people think long and hard whether they can afford to have children. I think there are very few people in the world who are 'lazy scum'. However I don't think that anyone should expect others to pay for their own choices (and how many children one has is very much a choice (multiple births excepted).
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Wow!
Let's just agree that the very, very, VERY rare cases where people DO have large families without any care as to whether they can afford them or not, is awful. Let's also agree that this is exceptionally rare.

If someone has two or even three children whilst gainfully employed, and has done the math which says they can afford the lifestyle, then loses their job, are you going to fault their 'planning' for their situation? Come on...
 
thfcsteff said:
Wow!
Let's just agree that the very, very, VERY rare cases where people DO have large families without any care as to whether they can afford them or not, is awful. Let's also agree that this is exceptionally rare.

If someone has two or even three children whilst gainfully employed, and has done the math which says they can afford the lifestyle, then loses their job, are you going to fault their 'planning' for their situation? Come on...
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Exactly this, just seems an excuse to finger point at people

A for what point do you plan for and balance life? Plan for every potential situation in life and love scared and frugally because you are scared of a a government decision that might triple your mortgage (ala Truss in a mates case).

I worked fcuking hard for the first 15 years of my career in an industry which notoriously pays little and lived salary to salary to get where I am today and be slightly more comfortable. If I lost my job In that time or had a major set back I would have been fcuked......nice to know some would have been a cnut about the circumstances if I claimed off the Rock n Roll
 
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Baleforce said:
The attitudes of some in this country are hugely disappointing.

So little empathy now.

I’m also kind of disgusted by Mamoud’s statements on immigration today, buying into the false right wing narrative that “it’s tearing the country apart”.

We don’t have an immigration problem in this country, we have a humanity problem.
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The lack of empathy is a shocker these days ironically it's people that generally act with a sense of them believing they have been somehow marginalized by society somehow. Just smacks of projection
 
Baleforce said:
The attitudes of some in this country are hugely disappointing.

So little empathy now.

I’m also kind of disgusted by Mamoud’s statements on immigration today, buying into the false right wing narrative that “it’s tearing the country apart”.

We don’t have an immigration problem in this country, we have a humanity problem.
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Possibly both no?
 
Grays_1890 said:
The lack of empathy is a shocker these days ironically it's people that generally act with a sense of them believing they have been somehow marginalized by society somehow. Just smacks of projection
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I think it’s a little deeper than that, many hard working people were quite content with their salary and could live within their means and afford a little luxury now. With these tax hikes, lack of immigration controls in place, seeing some just sponge and play the system doesn’t leave a pleasant taste for the vast majority of people existing and not living anymore.

It’s just a sign of the times, I fortunately can work a little more should I want the money, most don’t have that option and are boxed into their lives.
 
Gazza said:
I think it’s a little deeper than that, many hard working people were quite content with their salary and could live within their means and afford a little luxury now. With these tax hikes, lack of immigration controls in place, seeing some just sponge and play the system doesn’t leave a pleasant taste for the vast majority of people existing and not living anymore.

It’s just a sign of the times, I fortunately can work a little more should I want the money, most don’t have that option and are boxed into their lives.
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I also think though people believe money is a sign of purely working harder than the next and therefore look down at people, whereas I know people who work physically and mentally harder jobs than I have ever done and earn less, which is where my general empathy comes from on this subject. I also know people who have earned well and worked hard and lost things because of act of others, like Truss who tripled a mates mortgage in one feel swoop so he had to make massive economies.

Although I agree to come extent, its far from a recent thing, the conversations been had on here for 20 years on and off, its generally the Poch of the off topics in that respect.
 
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Gazza said:
Or even socially aware. What a dismal life sitting around at home pumping out kids, teaching them the same crap and then expecting to have a voice in society that they don’t contribute to rather burden.

I think if there is any benefit system in place you should get our what you put in, if you come under hardship in levels. Not just here you go have the same or more just because you know that you can claim more for having more kids.
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People who have worked for decades and find themselves needing help should certainly get more than those who have never worked.
 
People forget the environmental and biological lottery they won to be in a position to type hate towards people with less. It astonishes me.

There's very few people who weren't born with wealth/safety and/or extreme talent, who have absolutely risen to a position of privilege.

We are so fukin lucky and most of us don't seem to realise and have embraced narcissism that we ourselves are the main reason we have it comfy. Luck.

So as my friend @thfcsteff explained so perfectly, if you want to be in society you play your effin part in society. And people having basic living standards won't kill you.
 
LutonSpurs said:
What do you propose society does with those people? Put them in Labour camps?
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No, but I'd certainly be giving them significantly less than they could be earning on minimum wage.

I'd also remove the pull factor for those people to be there in the first place. Stagger the child benefit cap up from 0 for those who have never worked, to 2 for married/civil partners who have both paid in for 10 years.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I keep seeing a trend about leaving the ECHR being the answer to all our immigration problems. Such a ridiculous take and one thats frankly dangerous to everyone
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Why does it have to be dangerous?

What's with the (frankly ridiculous) suggestion that we wouldn't replace that legislation with something similar but only for UK citizens?
 
scaramanga said:
Why does it have to be dangerous?

What's with the (frankly ridiculous) suggestion that we wouldn't replace that legislation with something similar but only for UK citizens?
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And who would you trust to implement and enforce it? Our political system....

Its also frankly ridiculous that a set of protections for peoples human rights are seen as the bad guys in the room.
 
scaramanga said:
No, but I'd certainly be giving them significantly less than they could be earning on minimum wage.

I'd also remove the pull factor for those people to be there in the first place. Stagger the child benefit cap up from 0 for those who have never worked, to 2 for married/civil partners who have both paid in for 10 years.
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So they should have enough to have basics?Those basics should be based on what?

BTW I know you haven't thought this through but it will be fun poking holes in your terrible idea.
 
What hope does this country have when this comes up in faux outrage season

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Grays_1890 said:
And who would you trust to implement and enforce it? Our political system....

Its also frankly ridiculous that a set of protections for peoples human rights are seen as the bad guys in the room.
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It's not ridiculous, it's all about balance. You could create a human right protection ensuring that everyone is entitled to a 5 bed detached house and nightly meals at a 3 star restaurant. Obviously that would be unworkable.

Any of the current parties could take the laws as written but only apply them to UK citizens. Even the Greens could cope with something that simple.
 
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