Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Jurgen the German]

We should take some.

And the number we take should be strongly to our involvement in the reason they have become refugees in the first place.

We should also have an actual legal route for asylum.

Lastly, the hotels used to house these people are brickholes, it’s not a Ritz Carlton. They are not being put up in booking.com availability, they are buildings which have been taken over by for profit companies for this specific purpose.

Now, some are better than others, but mostly they offer the same comfort and amenities as an open prison, but with worse food and no entertainment or opportunity for education.

What was is that Mandela, Dostoevsky, Gandhi, and even Churchill, said about the true measure of society?

Sorry you’ve lost me on the bolded part.

It’s not the fact that immigrants are in hotels, it’s that we don’t seem to have a clue so we have no choice BUT to put them in hotels, which taxpayers foot the bill for. If I wanted to emigrate to another country, I wouldn’t expect that country’s taxpayers to be paying for me to stay in the interim until I get accepted and find a job, accommodation etc. The “system” we have now isn’t a system. I hold the current and previous government responsible for it.

 

[Rorschach]

Sorry you’ve lost me on the bolded part.

It’s not the fact that immigrants are in hotels, it’s that we don’t seem to have a clue so we have no choice BUT to put them in hotels, which taxpayers foot the bill for. If I wanted to emigrate to another country, I wouldn’t expect that country’s taxpayers to be paying for me to stay in the interim until I get accepted and find a job, accommodation etc. The “system” we have now isn’t a system. I hold the current and previous government responsible for it.

Immigrants are not in the hotels.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Well the fact that we have nowhere else to put them is farcical.

And your final point is the crucial one. How do we deal with so many claims when so many people are coming over here? Well always being playing catch up.

Well if we can speed up the process such that those who are not entitled to refugee status have their claims rejected and are deported (caveats as to when that isn't possible), then that in itself should be a deterrent - i.e. you don't have sufficient time to come here and get settled if you are an economic migrant rather than a genuine refugee.
The thing is we are not the only country facing this issue. We have fewer asylum applicants than a number of other European countries., Germany, France for sure and I think Italy, possibly Spain as well. But that's not highlighted by our media or even the government. It's seen as a huge issue now due to cost of living pressures. That's why I want the government to focus on things that will make life better for the working populaton rather than getting side-tracked into trying to appease Reform UK. Once that happens, the focus will shift away from asylum seekers. Even then we will still have a significant number of immigrants coming here on work visas because we don't have either the skills to fill all the vacancies, or we aren't prepared to pay for the higher wages (and therefore higher purchase costs) that employing non-immigrants would entail.
The whole system needs a shake-up, but that can still be done with compassion at the forefront rather than callousness.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Immigrants are not in the hotels.

Why do right wing idiots attack the hotels if asylum seekers/immigrants aren’t in them?

 

[Rorschach]

Why do right wing idiots attack the hotels if asylum seekers/immigrants aren’t in them?

Firstly, because they are idiots. And secondly, because asylum seekers are there. Not immigrants. Just as you said yourself, you can't emigrate to another country and get put up free in a hotel. You are conflating two different categories of people coming to the UK.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Well if we can speed up the process such that those who are not entitled to refugee status have their claims rejected and are deported (caveats as to when that isn't possible), then that in itself should be a deterrent - i.e. you don't have sufficient time to come here and get settled if you are an economic migrant rather than a genuine refugee.
The thing is we are not the only country facing this issue. We have fewer asylum applicants than a number of other European countries., Germany, France for sure and I think Italy, possibly Spain as well. But that's not highlighted by our media or even the government. It's seen as a huge issue now due to cost of living pressures. That's why I want the government to focus on things that will make life better for the working populaton rather than getting side-tracked into trying to appease Reform UK. Once that happens, the focus will shift away from asylum seekers. Even then we will still have a significant number of immigrants coming here on work visas because we don't have either the skills to fill all the vacancies, or we aren't prepared to pay for the higher wages (and therefore higher purchase costs) that employing non-immigrants would entail.
The whole system needs a shake-up, but that can still be done with compassion at the forefront rather than callousness.

It’s an issue for most developed countries. I’d guess it doesn’t get as much coverage because it’s not as close to home. I’ve said all along we need immigration, for example, my mum has dementia and resides in a care home. I’d say at least half of the carers are not from this country, one of the carers is from the Philippines and is trained as a teacher but she can’t get a job as a teacher in this country. The question is how many is too many which tbf I don’t know what the answer
Is.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Firstly, because they are idiots. And secondly, because asylum seekers are there. Not immigrants. Just as you said yourself, you can't emigrate to another country and get put up free in a hotel. You are conflating two different categories of people coming to the UK.

Ok poor choice of words on my part, but you got the gist of what I was I talking about. We need a better solution than putting them in hotels and shipping containers.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Why do right wing idiots attack the hotels if asylum seekers/immigrants aren’t in them?

I think it's the distinction between immigrants that you mentioned and asylum seekers. Immigrants come with an approved status, usually on a limited-time work or student visa or sometimes with settled status if joining family etc. and don't need temporary housing whilst having a claim assessed.
Hotels and other temporary accommodation are used to house those seeking asylum but who do not yet have immigrant status.
I get however that the terms are used interchangeably, such as 'illegal immigrants' which might be correct for someone who comes here without a visa or approved status and disappears into the black economy but as soon as they claim asylum they have a legal status as an asylum seeker. It's why the government had recently moved to talking about "irregular migration." I was sad today to hear the Home Secretary talk about "illegal immigration". It's pandering to the Reform rhetoric.

Edt - I took so long to type the post that I see it's already been answered.

 

[Rorschach]

It’s an issue for most developed countries. I’d guess it doesn’t get as much coverage because it’s not as close to home. I’ve said all along we need immigration, for example, my mum has dementia and resides in a care home. I’d say at least half of the carers are not from this country, one of the carers is from the Philippines and is trained as a teacher but she can’t get a job as a teacher in this country. The question is how many is too many which tbf I don’t know what the answer
Is.

It is less of a problem for the UK than for many countries in the global north, though you wouldn't know it from the coverage it receives. For those claiming asylum, speed of processing is the key to solving the hotel problem, as @Glenda's Legs said. Under previous tory govs this processing function was starved of resources for the precise purpose of generating a bottleneck and using the outrage that followed. It was a cynical electioneering tactic. This Labour government is arguably worse, which is disgraceful.

You do need immigration, but that is a separate discussion. I've read that the last 3 years have seen some of the lowest ever birth rates in the UK. A huge part of this is affordability of course, so helping out with childcare costs would help on this front.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It is less of a problem for the UK than for many countries in the global north, though you wouldn't know it from the coverage it receives. For those claiming asylum, speed of processing is the key to solving the hotel problem, as @Glenda's Legs said. Under previous tory govs this processing function was starved of resources for the precise purpose of generating a bottleneck and using the outrage that followed. It was a cynical electioneering tactic. This Labour government is arguably worse, which is disgraceful.

You do need immigration, but that is a separate discussion. I've read that the last 3 years have seen some of the lowest ever birth rates in the UK. A huge part of this is affordability of course, so helping out with childcare costs would help on this front.

It may not be as big of a problem as it is for other countries but that doesn’t mean it’s not an issue for us.

 

[Baleforce]

Sorry you’ve lost me on the bolded part.

It’s not the fact that immigrants are in hotels, it’s that we don’t seem to have a clue so we have no choice BUT to put them in hotels, which taxpayers foot the bill for. If I wanted to emigrate to another country, I wouldn’t expect that country’s taxpayers to be paying for me to stay in the interim until I get accepted and find a job, accommodation etc. The “system” we have now isn’t a system. I hold the current and previous government responsible for it.

Typo there, my point is, if they are fleeing a country where our previous involvement is related to the unrest, we have a responsibility.

Wherever they are housed in the UK the tax payer pays for it, that’s how our system works, taxes paid by those who can afford it subsidise those who can’t.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The question is how many is too many which tbf I don’t know what the answer
Is.

Net migration needs to be set at a level so that, triangulated with birth and death rates, it leads to a gradual population decrease. So tapering our existing overcrowding, without seeing the big population drops of say Japan