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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Jeremy Corbyn will pledge to take on "the few who run a corrupt system" as he kicks off the Labour Party's general election campaign.

The Labour leader will promise to "rebuild" public services and hit out at "tax dodgers, dodgy landlords, bad bosses and big polluters".

In a speech on Thursday, Mr Corbyn will say the poll is a "once-in-a-generation chance to transform our country".
[since the last once in a generation chance to transform our country, that he has tried to subvert ever since?]


But Prime Minister Boris Johnson blamed Mr Corbyn for the delay to Brexit.

Marking 100 days as prime minister in a campaign speech on Thursday - the day Brexit had been scheduled to take place - Mr Johnson will say: "Despite the great new deal I agreed with the EU, Jeremy Corbyn refused to allow that to happen - insisting upon more dither, more delay and more uncertainty for families and business."

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps also laid blame with MPs, telling BBC Radio 4's today programme: "It is quite clearly Parliament that has failed to deliver it. [Mr Johnson] did absolutely everything in his power to get Parliament to come its senses."

Mr Johnson suffered a blow on Wednesday evening as cabinet minister Nicky Morgan became the latest Tory MP to decide not to stand for re-election. She said the abuse MPs faced was one reason for stepping down.

Five weeks of official election campaigning are expected to get under way once Parliament is formally shut down next Wednesday.

In a speech in London, Mr Corbyn is expected to say Labour will launch "the biggest people-powered campaign in history".

"You know what really scares the elite? What they're actually afraid of is paying their taxes. So in this election they'll fight harder and dirtier than ever before," he will add.

"They'll throw everything at us because they know we're not afraid to take them on."

But the Conservatives' campaign chairman James Cleverly said voting for Labour was "precisely the opposite" to a "vote for change".

He said Labour would offer "more delay and uncertainty on Brexit, meaning the government can't focus on people's priorities, like the NHS, schools and crime".

Culture Secretary Nicky Morgan said she would not contest her Loughborough seat again - adding that being an MP had had a "clear impact" on her family.

"The abuse for doing the job of a modern MP can only be justified if, ultimately, Parliament does what it is supposed to do - represent those who serve in all areas of public life, respect votes cast by the electorate and make decisions in the overall national interest," she wrote.

On Thursday morning she told BBC Radio Leicester the role of being an MP had changed over the last decade.

"I think the abuse, because of the platforms, because of how strongly people feel about the current political situation, that has changed enormously in the almost 10 years since I started," she said.

She added she was not standing down "for any reasons of disagreement with the prime minister or the direction of the government at all".

More than 50 current MPs are preparing to stand down - and there may be more announcements in the coming days.

Ms Morgan's former colleague Anna Soubry - who left the Conservative Party and is now leader of Change UK - told BBC Newsnight that both Mr Johnson and his predecessor, Theresa May, were guilty of a "remarkable" and "pitiful lack of response" to the abuse MPs had faced in recent years.

Meanwhile, Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson has defended her decision to campaign as a "candidate to be prime minister", denying such an outcome was a fantasy.

Ms Swinson told the BBC's Andrew Neil the UK was in a "very volatile political situation" and anything could happen on 12 December.

"We have seen many unprecedented political results in recent years," she said.

As other smaller parties geared up for their election campaigns, the Daily Telegraph reported that the Brexit Party was considering helping the Tories to secure a majority by withdrawing hundreds of its general election candidates.

Brexit Party sources told PA news agency the report was "wild speculation".
 
If people think remain would win a new referendum comfortably then why not back a general election? Surely Labour would romp it as people would vote them in a shot over a leave government?

Or is it a case that the vote might just still be close?

Funny as we keep getting told remain is the mood without a shadow of a doubt? Easy election to win then really ey?
 
If people think remain would win a new referendum comfortably then why not back a general election? Surely Labour would romp it as people would vote them in a shot over a leave government?

Or is it a case that the vote might just still be close?

Funny as we keep getting told remain is the mood without a shadow of a doubt? Easy election to win then really ey?

I can only speak for myself, I consider the Labour Party to be a leave party, and endemically antisemitic.
 
If people think remain would win a new referendum comfortably then why not back a general election? Surely Labour would romp it as people would vote them in a shot over a leave government?

Or is it a case that the vote might just still be close?

Funny as we keep getting told remain is the mood without a shadow of a doubt? Easy election to win then really ey?

There's a few things, and it's mainly to do with the FPTP system


Nearly all of England and Wales is moderately leave - that's 410 leave constituencies

Scotland, London, Bristol and Brighton are massively remain - that's 240 remain constituencies


There's also Corbyn's Brexiteer credentials. Some of their main manifesto pledges are already illegal under EU law.


But if remain was actually strong as it thinks it is on its Twitter echo chamber, there'd be a Lib-SNP coalition in power.
 
If people think remain would win a new referendum comfortably then why not back a general election? Surely Labour would romp it as people would vote them in a shot over a leave government?

Or is it a case that the vote might just still be close?

Funny as we keep getting told remain is the mood without a shadow of a doubt? Easy election to win then really ey?

Labour is taking a Leave stance - just not with the Boris deal.
My understanding of their position is Leave but
a) will (attempt to) negotiate a new ("better") deal with the EU (should they win) - keeping the UK in a customs union seems to be their wish; and
b) will hold a second referendum to confirm this new deal. (What's not yet clear, unless I've missed something, is whether the 2nd vote would be on Labour New Deal v No Deal, or whether Remain would still be an option).
One of Labour's biggest issues with the GE (aside from the perception of Corbyn as leader) will be trying to fight Brexit-fatigue and make the GE about domestic issues as well.
It's also hard to judge how things will play out because there may be a lot more tactical voting this time (although irrelevant for the many in safe-seat constituencies).

 
Labour is taking a Leave stance - just not with the Boris deal.
My understanding of their position is Leave but
a) will (attempt to) negotiate a new ("better") deal with the EU (should they win) - keeping the UK in a customs union seems to be their wish; and
b) will hold a second referendum to confirm this new deal. (What's not yet clear, unless I've missed something, is whether the 2nd vote would be on Labour New Deal v No Deal, or whether Remain would still be an option).
One of Labour's biggest issues with the GE (aside from the perception of Corbyn as leader) will be trying to fight Brexit-fatigue and make the GE about domestic issues as well.
It's also hard to judge how things will play out because there may be a lot more tactical voting this time (although irrelevant for the many in safe-seat constituencies).

Neither a nor b appear to be the actions of a Leave party.
 
Neither a nor b appear to be the actions of a Leave party.

Which circles back to the argument of what "Leave" actually means. Leave-Lite perhaps.

I voted Remain, but am not a particularly ardent supporter of the EU as an organisation. I was open to being persuaded to vote Leave but in the end I just wasn't convinced by any of the arguments/reasons for leaving and am even less so now.
However...
I do, with some reluctance, come down on the side of honouring the referendum result, but with a deal, not under no deal. I don't think it's going to be the best thing for the UK, but then nor is the risk of us becoming an increasingly divided (divisive?) nation which will imo lead to a more prominent voice, and role, for the far right.
I'd actually like to see what kind of deal Labour could negotiate, but that's just not going to happen.

The whole thing is a humongous mess (understatement I know) and whatever the eventual outcome we'll be left dealing with the fallout for years and years to come.

In the interim we have another GE which will result in either the most narcissistic, untrustworthy PM I can remember getting a mandate to govern backed by his extreme must-be-appeased ERG chums, or we'll end up with another hung parliament and face ghod knows how long with nothing important outside of Brexit getting done. Neither is a palatable proposition.
 
Which circles back to the argument of what "Leave" actually means. Leave-Lite perhaps.

I voted Remain, but am not a particularly ardent supporter of the EU as an organisation. I was open to being persuaded to vote Leave but in the end I just wasn't convinced by any of the arguments/reasons for leaving and am even less so now.
However...
I do, with some reluctance, come down on the side of honouring the referendum result, but with a deal, not under no deal. I don't think it's going to be the best thing for the UK, but then nor is the risk of us becoming an increasingly divided (divisive?) nation which will imo lead to a more prominent voice, and role, for the far right.
I'd actually like to see what kind of deal Labour could negotiate, but that's just not going to happen.

The whole thing is a humongous mess (understatement I know) and whatever the eventual outcome we'll be left dealing with the fallout for years and years to come.

In the interim we have another GE which will result in either the most narcissistic, untrustworthy PM I can remember getting a mandate to govern backed by his extreme must-be-appeased ERG chums, or we'll end up with another hung parliament and face ghod knows how long with nothing important outside of Brexit getting done. Neither is a palatable proposition.
I agree with most of that.

I would point out though, that I don't think the increase in support for the far right of the spectrum is a direct result of what's going on with Brexit, more a reflection of the country's opposition being from the extreme left.
 
People keep talking about a rise in the far right, but never mention the rise in the far left. A left that is ever more extreme and militant.

Not trying to justify the far right, of course there is no justification for it - but its yet another signal in the current climate where Left is simply assumed as correct and anything right of that is a bad thing.

Extremes in any direction are bad.
 
I can only speak for myself, I consider the Labour Party to be a leave party, and endemically antisemitic.

You're of course fully entitled to your opinion, but if Labour were truly a leave party I'd suggest we'd have left by now.

For the record, I consider Labour primarily a 'oppose absolutely anything and everything the Conservatives ever say no matter what it may be' party. It's one of the main reasons I no longer take them seriously.
 
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There's a few things, and it's mainly to do with the FPTP system


Nearly all of England and Wales is moderately leave - that's 410 leave constituencies

Scotland, London, Bristol and Brighton are massively remain - that's 240 remain constituencies


There's also Corbyn's Brexiteer credentials. Some of their main manifesto pledges are already illegal under EU law.


But if remain was actually strong as it thinks it is on its Twitter echo chamber, there'd be a Lib-SNP coalition in power.

All a bunch of no bottle no neck harry hunts
 
One of Labour's biggest issues with the GE (aside from the perception of Corbyn as leader) will be trying to fight Brexit-fatigue and make the GE about domestic issues as well.
It's also hard to judge how things will play out because there may be a lot more tactical voting this time (although irrelevant for the many in safe-seat constituencies).


This should do it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50046329
 
Labour is taking a Leave stance - just not with the Boris deal.
My understanding of their position is Leave but
a) will (attempt to) negotiate a new ("better") deal with the EU (should they win) - keeping the UK in a customs union seems to be their wish; and
b) will hold a second referendum to confirm this new deal. (What's not yet clear, unless I've missed something, is whether the 2nd vote would be on Labour New Deal v No Deal, or whether Remain would still be an option).
One of Labour's biggest issues with the GE (aside from the perception of Corbyn as leader) will be trying to fight Brexit-fatigue and make the GE about domestic issues as well.
It's also hard to judge how things will play out because there may be a lot more tactical voting this time (although irrelevant for the many in safe-seat constituencies).


Tactical voting isn't irrelevant for Lib Dems, they are pushing it heavily even in places they have no chance just to make themselves look good which is the complete opposite of tactical voting (https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ould-deliver-remain-victory-in-election-study) of winning just because they have a couple of defectors they want to try and get a seat for. They're clearly just out for themselves (like all parties) really.

Mind you I think everyone on this thread can agree no tears will be shed when poor old 3 parties in a year Chuka is finally voted out.
 
Jeremy Corbyn vowed to "transform" Britain by taking on "the few who run a corrupt system" as he kicked off Labour's election campaign.

The party leader promised to "rebuild" public services and hit out at "tax dodgers, dodgy landlords, bad bosses and big polluters".

In a speech, Mr Corbyn called the 12 December poll a "once-in-a-generation chance to transform our country".

But Prime Minister Boris Johnson blamed Mr Corbyn for the delay to Brexit.

Both leaders, and those of other parties, are beginning six weeks of campaigning ahead of the election.

In a speech in Battersea, south London, Mr Corbyn received loud cheers from supporters when he said Labour would launch "the biggest people-powered campaign in history".

Flanked by members of the shadow cabinet, he said: "You know what really scares the elite? What they're actually afraid of is paying their taxes. So in this election they'll fight harder and dirtier than ever before. They'll throw everything at us because they know we're not afraid to take them on.

"So we're going after the tax dodgers. We're going after the dodgy landlords. We're going after the bad bosses. We're going after the big polluters. Because we know whose side we're on."

The December election, called for by the prime minister, is taking place after Mr Corbyn agreed to it following the EU delaying Brexit.

The Labour leader told the audience that, if he got to Downing Street, he would "open negotiations with the EU about a sensible relationship with Europe".

Mr Corbyn also said: "The prime minister wants you to believe that we're having this election because Brexit is being blocked by an establishment elite.

"People aren't fooled so easily. They know the Conservatives are the establishment elite."

Mr Corbyn also said the NHS was "not for sale" and that any future trade deal with the US should not involve giving companies from that country greater access to it.

After this, the audience, made up of Labour supporters, repeatedly chanted: "Not for sale."

Several times he asked the audience: "Whose side are you on?" They replied: "Yours."

Mr Corbyn said the prime minister had thought he was being "smart" in calling for an election in December, and thought that Labour supporters "won't go out to vote".

He added: "Even if the rivers freeze over, we're going out to bring about real change for the many, not the few."

But the Conservatives' campaign chairman James Cleverly said voting for Labour was "precisely the opposite" to a "vote for change".

He said Labour would offer "more delay and uncertainty on Brexit, meaning the government can't focus on people's priorities, like the NHS, schools and crime".
 
You're of course fully entitled to your opinion, but if Labour were truly a leave party I'd suggest we'd have left by now.

For the record, I consider Labour primarily a 'oppose absolutely anything and everything the Conservatives ever say no matter what it may be' party. It's one of the main reasons I no longer take them seriously.

It has gone that way, i had high hopes for Corbyn but he has shot himself and his party in the foot with his actions.
 
I’m wondering what Brexit supporters are be prepared swallow just prevent lose of face?
When does the costs outweigh any supposed gain for you guys?
 
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