Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I live in a Liberal seat that went Labour for the first time in 2017. It's very likely to go back Liberal again. As it's a pro-leave northern city, I think my best tactical vote will be Brexit party (rather than Tory)

Why?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Why?

It will go Liberal again because the Labour MP has been an absolute disgrace (google Jared O'Mara)

Somewhere like Sheffield will never vote Tory due to the Miners' Strike and things like that. It's why there needs to be an electoral pack - Brexit Party don't run in Conservative held and target seats, while the BP go after Labour's northern and midland industrial areas.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

So youll vote BP because the Tories dont stand a chance - but does the BP either?

 

[scaramanga]

My eldest is 15. Shes a good kid, and a smart kid, and she has absolutely no view of the world to be able to vote on the direction of a nation.

She simply doesnt. She is immature, at 15, and needs to live in the world a bit more before deciding how it should work.

Given the new rules, she wont even leave school until 18 at the earliest. So, to be honest, when she is able to vote then - I still dont think she'll be in any way qualified.

And is far more likely to throw a vote at something disastrously risky like a Corbyn government. If someone has nothing to lose, then there's seemingly no risk to them in voting for a party that will very likely destroy the entire economy.

Those with more to lose should count more as they are the ones interested in protecting the economy.

 

[StephenH]

With respect mate, as smart or even politically minded your grandson might be - he is still 13 and so completely unqualified to make decisions on grown ups business.

But my daughter 37 and is totally "unqualified" to vote in many areas except age.
No reason why 16 yo should not vote.

If its about being "smart" as you say, half the country should not have the vote and I'm being kind with 'half'.

 

[scaramanga]

But my daughter 37 and is totally "unqualified" to vote in many areas except age.
No reason why 16 yo should not vote.

If what you're suggesting is some kind of minimum IQ level to be able to vote, I'm with you on that one.

I'd like to see it set somewhere around the 140s-150s but would settle for anything north of around 130 or so.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

But my daughter 37 and is totally "unqualified" to vote in many areas except age.
No reason why 16 yo should not vote.

Your daughter is 37. Shes lived a life. Gone through adolescence. Made mistakes, Im sure. Made wiser choices. Worked (I assume). Travelled. And raised a family.

She is, IMO, FAR more qualified than your 13 year old grandson, my 15 year old daughter - or basically any 16-18 year old out there.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Couldn't Labour take a massive hit if they go for any form of Remain though? I mean a huge chunk of their base probably voted to leave originally or are now fed up with Brexit and want it out the way. Maybe they will try to divert our attention and talk about fixing the housing crisis or minimum wage etc and avoid any Brexit talk where possible. Either way I think they are f*#$%d.

60% of Labour seats are leave. In total there are 410 leave constituencies, to 240 remain.

FPTP will hopefully screw the remain vote, particularly as it is very localised (London, Scotland, Bristol and Brighton)

 

[StephenH]

If what you're suggesting is some kind of minimum IQ level to be able to vote, I'm with you on that one.

I'd like to see it set somewhere around the 140s-150s but would settle for anything north of around 130 or so.

Not sure what the levels should be but I think there should be a simple basic test like the driving practical.

 

[scaramanga]

Not sure what the levels should be but I think there should be a simple basic test like the driving practical.

I think if we're to add other options to top few % IQ then other characteristics I'd welcome are running a successful business, having at least an undergrad level of understanding of economics, etc.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Why is 16 to young?
You can get married raise a family and pay tax, why not vote?

Going by some of the mature nut jobs on here, spouting their ill informed crap, methinks they should keep quiet regarding younger people having the vote.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It will go Liberal again because the Labour MP has been an absolute disgrace (google Jared O'Mara)

Somewhere like Sheffield will never vote Tory due to the Miners' Strike and things like that. It's why there needs to be an electoral pack - Brexit Party don't run in Conservative held and target seats, while the BP go after Labour's northern and midland industrial areas.

Well that's tantamount to casting a vote for the Tories...well done!

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It will go Liberal again because the Labour MP has been an absolute disgrace (google Jared O'Mara)

Somewhere like Sheffield will never vote Tory due to the Miners' Strike and things like that. It's why there needs to be an electoral pack - Brexit Party don't run in Conservative held and target seats, while the BP go after Labour's northern and midland industrial areas.

He is no longer the endorsed candidate, so your point is? Any pretext will do, I guess1

 

[Gutter Boy]

So youll vote BP because the Tories dont stand a chance - but does the BP either?

Hard to say. They've only existed for a year, so are a new factor. Maybe not in my leafy middle-class area, but perhaps some of the more working class parts of the city.

 

[Gutter Boy]

He is no longer the endorsed candidate, so your point is? Any pretext will do, I guess1

Labour now have a 100% record of producing absolute scoundrel MPs for the constituency. Why would anyone give them the benefit of the doubt?

They are also very unpopular now as a local council because they signed a PPP to cut down all the city's trees (in what was, before they started, the UKs greenest city)

 

[Rorschach]

My eldest is 15. Shes a good kid, and a smart kid, and she has absolutely no view of the world to be able to vote on the direction of a nation.

She simply doesnt. She is immature, at 15, and needs to live in the world a bit more before deciding how it should work.

Given the new rules, she wont even leave school until 18 at the earliest. So, to be honest, when she is able to vote then - I still dont think she'll be in any way qualified.

Well I disagree on this. I fully accept that there are 16 year old kids who are idiots and don't know their arse from their elbow, but I would counter there are idiots a every age. Being an idiot can be a lifetime appointment or something you can grow into just as easily as out of.

My main point is the the kids have more skin in the game when it comes to brexit than those at the other end of their life. And in much the same way they have shown adults a clearer vision on the climate, I would also say that their motives on brexit may be purer, untainted by years of tribalism and party politics. Their vote would more likely be based on the outcome rather than the messenger. So let 16 year olds vote would be my opinion.

 

[Rorschach]

The voting age should definitely be 16. But so should drinking, smoking, military service, compulsory education and driving.

The oddest things with our age laws is that people aren't allowed to watch porn for 2 (something 3-4) years after they've been partaking.

You can be a soldier at 16, afaik.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Well I disagree on this. I fully accept that there are 16 year old kids who are idiots and don't know their arse from their elbow, but I would counter there are idiots a every age. Being an idiot can be a lifetime appointment or something you can grow into just as easily as out of.

My main point is the the kids have more skin in the game when it comes to brexit than those at the other end of their life. And in much the same way they have shown adults a clearer vision on the climate, I would also say that their motives on brexit may be purer, untainted by years of tribalism and party politics. Their vote would more likely be based on the outcome rather than the messenger. So let 16 year olds vote would be my opinion.

And yet they arent even deemed grown up enough to order a pint.

I understand the virtuous angle, and its not unreasonable - but it doesnt counter the idea that these kids dont even know what life is at that point.

I dont think someone who hasnt even finished puberty has the wherewithal to make judgements on a grander scale.

 

[Rorschach]

And yet they arent even deemed grown up enough to order a pint.

I understand the virtuous angle, and its not unreasonable - but it doesnt counter the idea that these kids dont even know what life is at that point.

I dont think someone who hasnt even finished puberty has the wherewithal to make judgements on a grander scale.

The kids too busy tossing or playing video games probably won't vote.

edit: aside puberty is kicking in way earlier now.

 

[Rorschach]

If what you're suggesting is some kind of minimum IQ level to be able to vote, I'm with you on that one.

I'd like to see it set somewhere around the 140s-150s but would settle for anything north of around 130 or so.

Or maybe just an elite few should pick for everyone. They know best after all.