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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

If he keeps the 'no deal' option live that should negate any split of vote or need for Farages Brexit party.

Plus a bigger majority (like May went for:)) should be doable for Boris....and when he deselects colleagues that are against his approach..smooth house voting post GE
 
I don't think you should really be de-selecting MP's for voting against you, half his cabinet voted against the original withdrawl agreement.
 
P.D. said:
I think that's a little unfair, it wasn't solely called by Cameron in a way. The Lib Dems had it as party policy to offer an in/out referendum previously, infact Ed Davey and some other lib dems stormed out of parliament at the refusal of allowing an amendment to be called to a vote on the Lison treat. Caroline Lucas (and I assume the green party) also supported one a few years back as well.
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Yes. A referendum to leave the EU has been in every Green manifesto up-to and including 2015
 
I haven't seen it but apparently the proposed bill for tomorrow says if they offer a different length extension to the one provided then the government must accept it regardless, they could come back and say 10 years. Should be an interesting day tomorrow.
 
P.D. said:
I haven't seen it but apparently the proposed bill for tomorrow says if they offer a different length extension to the one provided then the government must accept it regardless, they could come back and say 10 years. Should be an interesting day tomorrow.
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Forcing Remain is their clear objective. The fact that the media has repeatedly failed to highlight this is disgusting.
 
scaramanga said:
Forcing Remain is their clear objective. The fact that the media has repeatedly failed to highlight this is disgusting.
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The deal May put forward, the one that would have ended Freedom of movement which was the major reason for people voting out, was rejected by Brexiteers too. Those brexiteers have wanted no deal from the off which they do not have a mandate for. It's absolutely correct that the "no deal" scenario that only the Tory right and extreme brexiteers want, is opposed. I was a remain voter, but I accepted the referendum result wanting us to leave with a deal with the EU. May got that but people including the current PM undermined it. So it's a bit rich to blame remainers within his own party who supported the deal.
 
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P.D. said:
I haven't seen it but apparently the proposed bill for tomorrow says if they offer a different length extension to the one provided then the government must accept it regardless, they could come back and say 10 years. Should be an interesting day tomorrow.
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There's one report that we could veto our own extension request

Johnson's also got the 'granny-shagging surrender-monkey' text to Macron option
 
60c4ea3cce06fd7fc5598b823c919e66.jpg



Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Robspur12 said:
The deal May put forward, the one that would have ended Freedom of movement which was the major reason for people voting out, was rejected by Brexiteers too. Those brexiteers have wanted no deal from the off which they do not have a mandate for. It's absolutely correct that the "no deal" scenario that only the Tory right and extreme brexiteers want, is opposed. I was a remain voter, but I accepted the referendum result wanting us to leave with a deal with the EU. May got that but people including the current PM undermined it. So it's a bit rich to blame remainers within his own party who supported the deal.
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Warning: candid post that is a bit black and white. I hope its not divisive.

I don't think Brexiteers always wanted No Deal from the off. I don't think they are that intelligent to engineer such a complex strategy. Who would want no deal? It drops the UK into terrible position. No. Brexiteers believed their own hype. That it would be easy. That we could simply be like Switzerland or Norway, and whats the worst that could happen? They absolutely failed to realise the details - that Norway or even Switzerland (or Canada for that matter) is not sunshine and icecream. All 3 are suboptimal. Worse arrangements than we have now. That realisation is the emperiors new clothes of brexit.

No deal has not been chosen as a prefered option, it has been foisted on people who did not have the intelligence to model what would happen. That is the sorry truth of it.
 
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The other miscalculation is a belief that by 'seriously' threatening No Deal, the EU would give us a great deal. It is so deluded and immature, it is embassassing to think people who believe in such a strategy are running our nation.

1. The EU dont mind if the UK falls flat on its face with a no deal exit. If it makes leaving the EU look disasterous, win for them.

2. Any negotiation that is nuanced, that requires working in partnership over extended time, can not be done in such a threatening manner. If you are building a partnership it has to be with at least a veneer of honesty and respect. Especially when the other party is larger and can take or leave a deal. It matters less to the EU than us that a deal is agree. Why? Well see point 1 for staters, then look at the trade data. Then look at our ports which are not setup to have a hard border. And most importantly look at all the UK jobs that would be lost over night. In truth no deal is not really on the table, despite engineered appearances.

3. The EU can't give us better terms than their members get. That's not the EU fault is it? It's just simple logic. So no matter how strong our hand might be, threatening to damage their trade, there is a limit to what the EU can do for the UK, when the UK is out of the club.

Brexit: walob.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
The other miscalculation is a belief that by 'seriously' threatening No Deal, the EU would give us a great deal. It is so deluded and immature, it is embassassing to think people who believe in such a strategy are running our nation.

1. The EU dont mind if the UK falls flat on its face with a no deal exit. If it makes leaving the EU look disasterous, win for them.

2. Any negotiation that is nuanced, that requires working in partnership over extended time, can not be done in such a threatening manner. If you are building a partnership it has to be with at least a veneer of honesty and respect. Especially when the other party is larger and can take or leave a deal. It matters less to the EU than us that a deal is agree. Why? Well see point 1 for staters, then look at the trade data. Then look at our ports which are not setup to have a hard border. And most importantly look at all the UK jobs that would be lost over night. In truth no deal is not really on the table, despite engineered appearances.

3. The EU can't give us better terms than their members get. That's not really the EU fault is it? It's just simple logic really. So no matter how strong our hand might be, threatening to damage their trade, there is a limit to what the EU can do for the UK, when the UK is out of the club.

Brexit: walob.
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david-davis.jpg
 
SpurMeUp said:
The other miscalculation is a belief that by 'seriously' threatening No Deal, the EU would give us a great deal. It is so deluded and immature, it is embassassing to think people who believe in such a strategy are running our nation.

1. The EU dont mind if the UK falls flat on its face with a no deal exit. If it makes leaving the EU look disasterous, win for them.

2. Any negotiation that is nuanced, that requires working in partnership over extended time, can not be done in such a threatening manner. If you are building a partnership it has to be with at least a veneer of honesty and respect. Especially when the other party is larger and can take or leave a deal. It matters less to the EU than us that a deal is agree. Why? Well see point 1 for staters, then look at the trade data. Then look at our ports which are not setup to have a hard border. And most importantly look at all the UK jobs that would be lost over night. In truth no deal is not really on the table, despite engineered appearances.

3. The EU can't give us better terms than their members get. That's not the EU fault is it? It's just simple logic. So no matter how strong our hand might be, threatening to damage their trade, there is a limit to what the EU can do for the UK, when the UK is out of the club.

Brexit: walob.
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It's all really just positioning over the trade deal

Leave with the backstop - the EU bend us over in the future relationship as the only alternative we have to their terms is us putting up a border in Ireland

Leave without the backstop - we bend the EU over in the future relationship as the only alternative they have to our terms is them putting up a border in Ireland
 
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