Physical conditioning of players

[90sSpursBook]

Touched on in other threads but maybe worth it's own thread.

The performance and result and fallout from Wednesday have really got me thinking about the ways that players are trained.

Our downfall on Wednesday night was that in really going for it from the start on Wednesday and playing at a high tempo for 65 mins left us shattered and running on empty for last 20 mins where we were overrun. Didn't help that some players were not match fit anyway (chiriches, rose, ade).

AVB had obviously marched his tactics with physical conditioning so that we started games at a slow tempo and in theory would have plenty in reserve for the all important latter stages of games which perhaps explains why we have generally not conceded many late crucial goals in the last year.

I'm no nutritionist or surya scientist but I suspect that this is not something you can change overnight and with the high volume of games coming up training sessions can really only be used for recoveries, team shape and set pieces.

Looking back to Harry we played a high tempo and look what started happening to us towards the end of the seasons (both 10/11 and 11/12) compared to last season where we only lost twice after Xmas in the league.

If Sherwood continues to play high tempo from the off then we will need to get players back 100% fit and more importantly score a couple of goals to kill game off by 60 mins. Otherwise expect a lot of late goals going in in latter stages!

 

[Hully]

Other teams seem to be able to play high tempo football without running out of fuel. It's why we all have huge squads these days.

 

[braineclipse]

I think the enthusiasm and early energy in the first game after a managerial change/sacking is pretty typical. I think Fulham similarly came out at full belt against us. The players react in that way and the new managers are desperate for a fresh start so are happy to see that happen.

Doesn't mean it will be the new standard for how we play football.

 

[africanspurs]

Touched on in other threads but maybe worth it's own thread.

The performance and result and fallout from Wednesday have really got me thinking about the ways that players are trained.

Our downfall on Wednesday night was that in really going for it from the start on Wednesday and playing at a high tempo for 65 mins left us shattered and running on empty for last 20 mins where we were overrun. Didn't help that some players were not match fit anyway (chiriches, rose, ade).

AVB had obviously marched his tactics with physical conditioning so that we started games at a slow tempo and in theory would have plenty in reserve for the all important latter stages of games which perhaps explains why we have generally not conceded many late crucial goals in the last year.

I'm no nutritionist or surya scientist but I suspect that this is not something you can change overnight and with the high volume of games coming up training sessions can really only be used for recoveries, team shape and set pieces.

Looking back to Harry we played a high tempo and look what started happening to us towards the end of the seasons (both 10/11 and 11/12) compared to last season where we only lost twice after Xmas in the league.

If Sherwood continues to play high tempo from the off then we will need to get players back 100% fit and more importantly score a couple of goals to kill game off by 60 mins. Otherwise expect a lot of late goals going in in latter stages!

how do you know this? the first bit in bold?

we were dire / turgid / laboured for a lot of games last season and the suddenly got baled out but the level pressing was high than this season and the level of pace the game was played at last season was slighlty more than this year

this years pace was definately an issue compared to last year...no question mate

and this doesnt necessarily explain the good defensive displays...i think you'll agree that under redknapp we played faster and more exciting and much more entertaining. ...yet our defensive performances broke and set records that year

am actually not sure about how people can be sure that we were definately told to play slooooooooooooooooowww, its one thing to NOT go gung ho from the start and burn out, but its another to be told the opposite...as in play sloooooooooooooooooooow.

Its true that we waned in the tail end of the last two seasons under harry however i suspect the last season of his was more to do with him chasing the england...the season before that was more to do with form / confidence / luck AND Fatigue. If it was just fatigue then it would be a simple case of just resting people in between games


i think the conditioning thing that we have now is again, believe it or not, down to a mental fatigue and lack of belief that may have been plaguing the club when AVB was under pressure. because playing slow tempo or no there was a distinct lack of effort and evergy throughout the whole match

where was the intense pressing from middle to second part of last year?
where was the high line organisation?
where was the discipline and togetherness of the unit? something that you could not say AVB didnt bring last year..a structured and disciplined and hard working approach

all of that seemed to vanish recently......its definately one to ponder



if the players want and like to play for Temp Tim then their energy levels will pick up

and quite frankly...aside from some missed top class quality..the actual SIZE of our squad is bigger and better then under harry.. we can rotate more now than before no problem, think about it......a 30 million pound player hasnt even played that much yet, our best attacking display this season was with two fringe players that never got a look in under AVB in defoe and Ade ......

If we cant rotate now after amassing this huge unit of equal level players then Baldini and coach needs shooting

 

[milo]

It's not just about pacing yourself through a game but also over the season. AVB is meant to have planned a training schedule that varied in intensity through thge season with the aim of getting the players to peak for the run in. I would imagine that it will be very difficult to transfer that to the interim set up.

 

[Modric THFC]

It's not just about pacing yourself through a game but also over the season. AVB is meant to have planned a training schedule that varied in intensity through thge season with the aim of getting the players to peak for the run in. I would imagine that it will be very difficult to transfer that to the interim set up.

AVB was meant to play attacking football.
AVB was meant to play 433.
AVB was meant to have learnt that the high line cant work with slow defenders.
We dont really know.
He did however manage us so we didn't run out of steam within individual games though.

Sherwood has talked since about the need to conserve energy during games by keeping possession and controlling the game.
Who knows if he means what he says either.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Only poor teams need to expend so much energy. Good teams can keep possession of the ball.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Only poor teams need to expend so much energy. Good teams can keep possession of the ball.

This. It's also about being able to choose your moments to do either. Liverpool under Benitez were masters at choosing when to do both (and also when to sit back and let the opposition have the ball before running out of ideas)

 

[milo]

Sherwood has talked since about the need to conserve energy during games by keeping possession and controlling the game.
Who knows if he means what he says either.

I agree with this point.

If Sherwood is the idiot and football throwback that some people have tried to suggest, the people that you really have to ask questions of are Levy and Baldini.

 

[braineclipse]

Only poor teams need to expend so much energy. Good teams can keep possession of the ball.

Yet Barcelona strive to be one of the fittest teams in the world.

Klopp's Dortmund ran more than just about any team in the group stages their first year back in the CL. At a coaching conference he had been approached by another manager/coach who had said that "it's not about running the most". After a long hard think about it he had said to himself "yes, yes it is." later that night or the next day. He continued in the same direction and the next year they were in the CL final. (Paraphrasing)

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'd imagine Barcelona would have lost to West Ham on Wednesday under Sherwood's instructions to play 100mph 'up-and-at-em' football.

It was just reckless.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'd be interested in reading some detail about Klopp's philosophy.

Obviously I understand that at a basic level it's quick tempo and getting the ball forward but it would be interesting to know if and how he builds and plans for the rest periods in games.

Because then it would be like every team really would have rest periods and try to control the energy they expand, but they would go about attacking in different ways when they try and flick the switch.

You see Southampton go full tempo from the beginning and rest when they have a lead...they are another club where by I wonder if they build rest in when they haven't scored yet. It would be very interesting to know.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yet Barcelona strive to be one of the fittest teams in the world.

Klopp's Dortmund ran more than just about any team in the group stages their first year back in the CL. At a coaching conference he had been approached by another manager/coach who had said that "it's not about running the most". After a long hard think about it he had said to himself "yes, yes it is." later that night or the next day. He continued in the same direction and the next year they were in the CL final. (Paraphrasing)

They are controlled bursts of intensity. Not headless chickens who shoot their load at the beginning and can't recover.

 

[braineclipse]

They are controlled bursts of intensity. Not headless chickens who shoot their load at the beginning and can't recover.

I was replying to what you wrote. You said that only poor teams need to expend so much energy, I'm saying that some of the best teams in the world expend a lot of energy perhaps even more energy than the vast majority of teams.

As I have already stated in this very thread I don't think the approach we took against West Ham is what we will be doing going forward.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

how do you know this? the first bit in bold?

we were dire / turgid / laboured for a lot of games last season and the suddenly got baled out but the level pressing was high than this season and the level of pace the game was played at last season was slighlty more than this year

this years pace was definately an issue compared to last year...no question mate

and this doesnt necessarily explain the good defensive displays...i think you'll agree that under redknapp we played faster and more exciting and much more entertaining. ...yet our defensive performances broke and set records that year

am actually not sure about how people can be sure that we were definately told to play slooooooooooooooooowww, its one thing to NOT go gung ho from the start and burn out, but its another to be told the opposite...as in play sloooooooooooooooooooow.

Its true that we waned in the tail end of the last two seasons under harry however i suspect the last season of his was more to do with him chasing the england...the season before that was more to do with form / confidence / luck AND Fatigue. If it was just fatigue then it would be a simple case of just resting people in between games


i think the conditioning thing that we have now is again, believe it or not, down to a mental fatigue and lack of belief that may have been plaguing the club when AVB was under pressure. because playing slow tempo or no there was a distinct lack of effort and evergy throughout the whole match

where was the intense pressing from middle to second part of last year?
where was the high line organisation?
where was the discipline and togetherness of the unit? something that you could not say AVB didnt bring last year..a structured and disciplined and hard working approach

all of that seemed to vanish recently......its definately one to ponder



if the players want and like to play for Temp Tim then their energy levels will pick up

and quite frankly...aside from some missed top class quality..the actual SIZE of our squad is bigger and better then under harry.. we can rotate more now than before no problem, think about it......a 30 million pound player hasnt even played that much yet, our best attacking display this season was with two fringe players that never got a look in under AVB in defoe and Ade ......

If we cant rotate now after amassing this huge unit of equal level players then Baldini and coach needs shooting

AVBs style was AVBs style, I thought most people were in agreement of what it was...whether or not they liked it is a different matter. And every style has good points and negative points, the short blanket theory, you'll always leave part of your team exposed. So while we may struggle in first halves to score we were usually quite comfortable seeing games out for the win especially towards the end of last season.

The pressing and the style itself didn't look as good in a lot of games this season but I think it's just players settling - they clearly backed AVB and wanted to put into action what he wanted. But when players are not settled or it isn't clicking the style looks bad and flawed, when it does work it looks good and does what it is supposed to do.

What I will say is that I do think we have one of the deepest squads in the league, and can probably play a bit more of a quick tempo game in more matches without destroying intensity later in the season. This is with the caveat that we rotate properly and don't over play favourites, and also that we do build rest periods into games, because the West Ham match was amateurish to be honest.

Sherwood has acknowledged it though and he understands the need to be progressive with the ball when we need to rest as he has said, so I think that will come. I would like to see something a bit more refined and strategic than simply 'score then rest when winning' because we may need to rest when drawing, but I do trust that Sherwood recognises the need to not always be 100 mph.

 

[Jordinho]

I'd be interested in reading some detail about Klopp's philosophy.

Obviously I understand that at a basic level it's quick tempo and getting the ball forward but it would be interesting to know if and how he builds and plans for the rest periods in games.

Because then it would be like every team really would have rest periods and try to control the energy they expand, but they would go about attacking in different ways when they try and flick the switch.

You see Southampton go full tempo from the beginning and rest when they have a lead...they are another club where by I wonder if they build rest in when they haven't scored yet. It would be very interesting to know.

While I look for some videos I've posted a long time ago:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1594218-dortmund-breaking-down-jurgen-klopps-tactics-and-the-role-of-each-player

 

[Jordinho]

Klopp has named Arrigo Sacchi as his main influence. This video is interesting if only for the amazing production values :lol: :

[video=youtube;e53nGPMqQTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e53nGPMqQTE[/video]

 

[Jordinho]

Might have been these:

[video=youtube;H3rXN8v13es]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3rXN8v13es[/video]
[video=youtube;zY0XvW3ZaKc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY0XvW3ZaKc[/video]
[video=youtube;MG8GIP-1pEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG8GIP-1pEs[/video]

 

[Jordinho]

[video=youtube;rqqROYJMIIs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqqROYJMIIs[/video]

Part 5 was never uploaded, but it's on uefa.com somewhere.

[video=youtube;WPYAeQJdkDs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPYAeQJdkDs[/video]
[video=youtube;Fwi6Tl9cW20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwi6Tl9cW20[/video]

 

[Mumorn]

Arrigo Sacchi never played football..

but neither did AVB...