Paul Mitchell - Head of Recruitment and Analysis

[Finney Is Back]

Perhaps they are referring to the fact we wouldnt stump up fee and break our wage structure?

To me if that is Mitchells problem then he can do one, he would have known budgets etc. when he took the job. Unless he was purely there to identify players in which case if we dont sign them that isnt his problem.

See above. Batshuayi was another player that we had long standing interest in. Perhaps the frustration is that we didn't act on information provided previously and a player we could've had for a reasonable amount then became unobtainable (could be a similar story with NKoudou this/next summer?)

 

[thfcsteff]

You are looking at all of those deals as they are now though....

Right at the start of the summer that Martial went to Man Utd we were talking to Monaco about him.... It was rumoured that they wanted 26 million Euros for him and we got as far as offering 18. After our talks broke down the player ended up signing a new deal at Monaco. It was then at the very end of that summer that he went to Man Utd for such a huge fee (with Monaco being in a position of strength contractually)

Batshuayi - again.... we don't know the full detail. Perhaps the recommendation was that we signed him when the price was lower? last summer for instance or in the January window?

Berahino it is clear that we have moved on from him now. It was last season that we wanted him. But we didn't go in seriously for him until VERY late in the window. If Berahino was an M and/or M recommendation then this probably would've frustrated them as there was a deal to be done for the player.

Again - I am not saying that is what definitely happened, just that it is a possibility.

Of those players we have to consider who would've worked out/been happy at Spurs given what we have...

Martial - a fine player but where does he play for us and how would he feel being a squad member?
Batshuayi - great potential but again, he isn't going to be the first choice striker. Is he going to tolerate that?
Berahino - his behavior at West Brom worried me, and the fee quoted was ridiculous.

IF these, plus N'Koudou, deals are at the centre of it, then I think we will be just fine. again, s long as Poch is OK.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If I am sat at Spurs and I am recommending 18m players as a "talent scout" then that is a cushy job

But what about about if you were recommending £9 million players like NKoudou or Malli to the club? Or recommending £15m and £40k a week players like Batshuayi 1 year ago, only to see them move for more than double a year later?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of those players we have to consider who would've worked out/been happy at Spurs given what we have...

Martial - a fine player but where does he play for us and how would he feel being a squad member?
Batshuayi - great potential but again, he isn't going to be the first choice striker. Is he going to tolerate that?
Berahino - his behavior at West Brom worried me, and the fee quoted was ridiculous.

IF these, plus N'Koudou, deals are at the centre of it, then I think we will be just fine. again, s long as Poch is OK.

Martial would've been here instead of Son I think. He would be perfect as a wide attacking player who can also fill in up front. We ended up paying the same money for Son that we could've got Martial for. I know which of the two I think is the better player with the higher ceiling.
Batshuayi - I think he would've been cover for Kane.... Remember we are talking last summer and not this summer..... Yes I think he would've been happy to come in a year ago, quadruple his earnings and cover Kane.
Berahino - every day I think about what happened to his career at West Bromich Pulisball Albion, I sympathise more and more with his attitude. He had a chance of a move to a fantastic club, he knew his manager didn't want him and he was denied that chance because his chairman and our chairman got into a game of brinkmanship. I think a ridiculous fee was quoted because of the game of brinkmanship, it put Peace's nose out of joint and he didn't want to be seen as weak. Much earlier in the window it could probably have been done amicably for a fair amount on both sides.

 

[Finney Is Back]

There is also another possibility that Pochettino has put his foot down on keeping NJie instead of getting rid of him and bringing in a new player who *might* be better?

After all Pochettino does now have final say on all matters concerning the playing squad?

This scenario is a more optimistic one, but it is perhaps at odds to the comments about M&M departing not being due to relations with Pochettino?

 

[Gutter Boy]

There is also another possibility that Pochettino has put his foot down on keeping NJie instead of getting rid of him and bringing in a new player who *might* be better?

After all Pochettino does now have final say on all matters concerning the playing squad?

This scenario is a more optimistic one, but it is perhaps at odds to the comments about M&M departing not being due to relations with Pochettino?

I think that's quite a possibility. All the signs from Poch are that he prefers a settled squad that he can improve through coaching.

Needlessly swapping 'bright but raw young WF' whose had a year to bed in for a seemingly fairly identical 'bright but raw young WF' who will need a year to settle in/learn the system, might not have appealed to him very much.

 

[Vega]

Lyall Thomas ‏@SkySportsLyall 2m2 minutes ago
Paul Mitchell fallout http://www.skysports.com/share/10529898 relations between board + recruitment staff have become strained #THFC

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think that's quite a possibility. All the signs from Poch are that he prefers a settled squad that he can improve through coaching.

Needlessly swapping 'bright but raw young WF' whose had a year to bed in for a seemingly fairly identical 'bright but raw young WF' who will need a year to settle in/learn the system, might not have appealed to him very much.

It is certainly another scenario that could explain both the sudden departures and the strange inability to conclude the NKoudou deal. Again, in this scenario M&M may feel that their work not needed/necessary if Poch isn't prepared to use their research.

Wondering what you feel about all of this though GB?.... After all you have been one who has spoken out the most in support of "the black box" and new methods used at the club to recruit players, but now we instead seem to be going back to a Redknapp type scenario where the manager chooses the players (a model that you didn't seem to like previously?)

 

[Rorschach]

Whatever is happening I don't like that this is now leaking into the public domain.

 

[Robbo]

Like it or not, everyone knows Levy is an extremely tough negotiator who doesn't like to spend a penny more than he has to - let alone battling it out financially with the cash drugged clubs. There's no way Mitchell didn't know this very well already.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think this is a total HACK job and people are trying to hard to raise alarms or point blame.

Ultimately although we all strive for improvements, us sitting here trying to improve every element of the club we know nothing about because one guy wants to leave Spurs is pointless.

PM wants to leave, fine, he can go, Spurs won't die tomorrow because he has left the club, like we didn't when a real contributor to success (Bale) left.

I for one am thankful for where we are and who we have at the club today, Poch, Levy and the playing team, positive on that and moving forwards.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think this is a total HACK job and people are trying to hard to raise alarms or point blame.

Ultimately although we all strive for improvements, us sitting here trying to improve every element of the club we know nothing about because one guy wants to leave Spurs is pointless.

PM wants to leave, fine, he can go, Spurs won't die tomorrow because he has left the club, like we didn't when a real contributor to success (Bale) left.

I for one am thankful for where we are and who we have at the club today, Poch, Levy and the playing team, positive on that and moving forwards.

A good company will always have a proper review when just a single employee chooses to leave with the company not wanting to lose them. If a company has two regrettable leavers at the same time then it would be negligent not to review the situation. Valued employees leaving is a good early sign to those at the top that things aren't right. Of course if the reason that the valued employees are leaving is BECAUSE of those at the top then it is a different story.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It is certainly another scenario that could explain both the sudden departures and the strange inability to conclude the NKoudou deal. Again, in this scenario M&M may feel that their work not needed/necessary if Poch isn't prepared to use their research.

Wondering what you feel about all of this though GB?.... After all you have been one who has spoken out the most in support of "the black box" and new methods used at the club to recruit players, but now we instead seem to be going back to a Redknapp type scenario where the manager chooses the players (a model that you didn't seem to like previously?)

I think you have to use the data in the right way, tempered by other considerations. E.g.

Good uses:
- Using it to predict steep upward trajectories in low profile gems like Wimmer
- Using it to decide we can let Bentaleb go because Winks is ready/close to eclipsing him (Mitchell has said Southampton actively did this with Chambers and Clyne)

Bad uses:
- Churning players after a year because the newest modelling shows X new player will probably be 1% better than Y current player (Njie) and ignoring the environmental costs of that

 

[indianspur]

so Mitchell and Mackenzie gone. Surely they will take other members of the scouting/player analysis team they helped to set up too.

 

[indianspur]

also in Australia Poch clearly said he expected more signings before the window ended. Yesterday Levy stated that our incoming business is almost complete. I see a major difference of opinion there. With this and what has happened with Mitchell and McKenzie something doesnt seem right with whats going on behind the scenes

 

[indianspur]

But what about about if you were recommending £9 million players like NKoudou or Malli to the club? Or recommending £15m and £40k a week players like Batshuayi 1 year ago, only to see them move for more than double a year later?

frustrating indeed and id understand Mitchell getting annoyed

 

[Grays_1890]

A good company will always have a proper review when just a single employee chooses to leave with the company not wanting to lose them. If a company has two regrettable leavers at the same time then it would be negligent not to review the situation. Valued employees leaving is a good early sign to those at the top that things aren't right. Of course if the reason that the valued employees are leaving is BECAUSE of those at the top then it is a different story.

I have no doubts they will have a Review, but as an overall picture the Spurs train has been rolling in the right direction long before these two and will continue to do so.

It is feasible that they were not doing their job, or the job Levy had in mind when he employed them and he did not wish to fight their wishes to leave, if he wanted them to stay I am sure change would have come, be it work or money wise.

I lose no sleep on this news, especially as one is off to Leics and one to Derby

 

[Grays_1890]

also in Australia Poch clearly said he expected more signings before the window ended. Yesterday Levy stated that our incoming business is almost complete. I see a major difference of opinion there. With this and what has happened with Mitchell and McKenzie something doesnt seem right with whats going on behind the scenes

Hahaha they are on the same page.

Our incoming business is "nearly done" means more to come, but we are close to sorted. Poch saying he expects signings is the exact same.

People are so keen to create a crisis when there is non.

Lets not forget here, Levy is the boss, regardless

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

But what about about if you were recommending £9 million players like NKoudou or Malli to the club? Or recommending £15m and £40k a week players like Batshuayi 1 year ago, only to see them move for more than double a year later?

That could be it, but I find myself in that situation at work all of the time. You just get on with it and work on your persuasion skills and you remind said powers that be about what you said.

I think we are wildly speculating on this. As i said before, I think the wording of the press release shows that it was an amicable parting of ways. These things happen, and we will move on. Southampton haven't fallen apart since he left them, so there is no reason to believe that the same will happen to us. Personally speaking, I would say that on the face of it, he has done a good job. Have we unearthed a superstar, I don't think so. Have we signed dross, I know we haven't.

Southampton survived after Mitchell left and continue to make some very decent signings. Leicester continued to be a success after McKenzie left them. I've not seen anything that makes me think that we will have any decline after these two leave.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think you have to use the data in the right way, tempered by other considerations. E.g.

Good uses:
- Using it to predict steep upward trajectories in low profile gems like Wimmer
- Using it to decide we can let Bentaleb go because Winks is ready/close to eclipsing him (Mitchell has said Southampton actively did this with Chambers and Clyne)

Bad uses:
- Churning players after a year because the newest modelling shows X new player will probably be 1% better than Y current player (Njie) and ignoring the environmental costs of that

Fair enough, but you haven't really answered my question there.