That's a key observation
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Paris
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
That's a key observation
Sure, how many do you want?
Here is a group of cartoonists from a 'Muslim country'
Popular satire magazine Penguen has joined the tributes to the French magazine Charlie Hebdo, sharing a cartoon with its trademark Penguin in tears over the Jan. 7 massacre of 12 people at Charlie Hebdo’s Paris office.
The magazine also said in a Twitter post that it will dedicate its next edition to Charlie Hebdo. “We are very saddened. But we will still continue to draw, dedicating our next number to Charlie Hebdo,” it said.
Tributes poured in from other prominent Turkish cartoonists, who praised the murdered Charlie Hebdo cartoonists Charb, Cabu and Wolinski.
Tuncay Akgün, the manager of Leman, a satirical magazine renowned for employing acidic sarcasm, said many of those who died in the attack were his close friends.
“Not only were they friends, but they also knew Turkey very well. They were all bred with the soul of 1968. [The killers] massacred three generations of cartoonists, who were only using the most important gain of the French Revolution: Freedom of thought and expression,” Akgün said.
Fellow Leman cartoonist Aslan Özdemir also joined the tributes. “I am proud of having met these brave humorists. I bow respectfully over the legacy that they left,” Özdemir said via tweeter.
Yılmaz Aslantürk, who draws cartoons for the popular Uykusuz magazine, expressed his dismay by saying “you cannot instill fear to humorists.” Both Leman and Uykusuz turned their social media profile pictures to black in a sign of mourning for the massacre.
Turkey is a relatively secular country and is fairly mixed. It has large wine producing areas for example.
So some lip service to a tragedy from a mixed, secular society probably doesn't mean a lot.
Someone more cynical that I might suggest that a public mention of sadness over the issue might raise a magazine's circulation, albeit briefly.
I'm waiting for the "not in my name" protests on the streets of Iran or some kind of public condemnation in the press that isn't just a veiled excuse to criticise the Iraq war.
When you say quite mixed, what do you mean, it's 98% Muslim as far as I know. Why would they have to publish cartoons ridiculing Mohamed? You miss the point.... Perhaps.
"Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has added his voice to the chorus of reactions after the massacre perpetrated against French satiric weekly magazine Charlie Hebdo that killed 12 people on Jan 7, condemning what he described as a "heinous terrorist attack."
“We extend our condolences to our friend and ally France and expect the perpetrators to be brought to justice as soon as possible," said Erdoğan in a statement published on Jan. 7.
"Turkey has fought and will continue to fight against all forms of terrorism with determination. We express our heart-felt condolences for the innocent people killed today and wish a quick recovery for the injured. We also wish patience and steadfastness to the relatives of the deceased and the injured and to the people of France," the statement also read.
Continued:
""On this occasion, we would like to stress that terrorism has no religion or nationality and no excuse can be given for it. It is of crucial importance that we have a common stance against terrorist attacks such as the one in Paris today. We have to take a firm stance against hate speech, intolerance to differences and attempts to present religious and cultural differences as ground for enmity," the statement said.
Like I said 98% Muslim as far as I know... But here are some others:
Egypt's Al-Azhar University, Sunni Islam's most prestigious centre of learning, called the attack "criminal" and said "Islam denounces any violence", while the Arab League also condemned the attack.
The foreign ministry of Qatar, added: "Such acts that target unarmed civilians contradict all principles and moral and human values."
Please allow me to answer your questions DTA:
When you talk of Muslim countries you do so implying a hemogonous entity... That's beyond ignorance!
Well actually it isn't - Muslims generally don't have the same attachment to their countries, particularly Sunni Muslims, and they regard themselves as being part of a world wide community called the Ummah, and many dream of the return of the Caliphate - a single Muslim nation covering the area where Muslims dominate. To a Muslim living here, something happening in Baghdad or Islamabad is the like something happening in Southampton or Manchester.
Comparing Saudi Arabia to Turkey is ludicrous, yet they are both Muslim countries.
Actually Turkey, a country founded by the great statesmen Kemel Ataturk, is slowly reversing a century of progression and secularism and becoming ever more Islamified under their nutjob of a prime minister. You do tend to see this in Islamic countries, slow progressive steps are suddenly blown away by a reversion to a more primitive state. Islam cannot evolve and it acts like a coil, dragging back countries where it dominates and it's always led by handful of nutjobs against the general will of the people.
What is in terms of population the largest majority Muslim country? What is their system of governance?
Indonesia and Democratic Corruption.
Women's rights in 'Muslim countries' again what is Muslim countries?
Under Sharia Law, a woman has to have four witnesses to prove an accusation of rape.
Female gentile mutalation.... What the hell are you talking about... Nothing at all to do with Islam...FACT... Honour killings, Again a barbaric cultural phenominum, again nothing to do with Islam, revenge rape... rape is rape... And revenge rape is again nothing to do with Islam...
This is true actually, but I'd argue that woman's lower status, as stated in the Quran, is the fundamental justification for these things happening.
Are there more rapes in the western world or in your o called 'Muslim countries'
There are only more reported rapes in the Western World because it generally isn't worth even reporting them in Islamic countries (apparently there's more reported homosexuals too!) though it's unfair to single out Islam in that respect, because it's clearly a major problem in India and many Christian parts of Africa as well.
There is more much more.... For example why do 'Muslim countries' like Saudi Arabia (with their medieval system receive so much support from the west? You heard of the Skye's picot accord, what was the result dude?
As long as they sell us their oil, buy our military hardware, don't start any wars or don't gas their own people, we don't particularly care who runs whatever country. Our governments are elected to seek the best deal for us.
Why did al quada and Isis become so dominant in Iraq, when they never even had any following there before the gulf wars?
Obviously, we can see now it was better to leave Saddam there! Not said sarcastically.
Who created and funded the Taliban dude? The same Taliban that shoots girls for going to school?
Without really knowing what they were getting into, the Americans made the mistake of supporting and Afghans against the Soviets, and with the benefits of hindsight we can see that was a mistake, though I'd argue an organization like the Taliban was pretty inevitable anyway.
How and why did the Iranian political system come in to place?
It goes back to the Abadan crisis - we, Britain, invested tons of money in discovering and developing Iranian oil and quite clearly has justification in seeking revenue from it (Do you watch Dragon's Den?) which was denied us when it was nationalized, so, together with the Americans, we orchestrated a coup and installed the shah in power. He was a bit corrupt and the people got sick of him and had a revolution to get rid of him, but in much the same way the Bolsheviks hijacked the Russian Revolution, the Islamists hijacked the Iranian one, and Iranians suffer because of this to this day and most of them long to see the end of Islamic rule and the return of a secular and democratic government.
Still the past for you? Why was a military coup in Eygpt so readily accepted by the west?
Because Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood were nutjobs.
When you talk of Muslim countries you do so implying a hemogonous entity... That's beyond ignorance!
Well actually it isn't - Muslims generally don't have the same attachment to their countries, particularly Sunni Muslims, and they regard themselves as being part of a world wide community called the Ummah, and many dream of the return of the Caliphate - a single Muslim nation covering the area where Muslims dominate. To a Muslim living here, something happening in Baghdad or Islamabad is the like something happening in Southampton or Manchester.
Comparing Saudi Arabia to Turkey is ludicrous, yet they are both Muslim countries.
Actually Turkey, a country founded by the great statesmen Kemel Ataturk, is slowly reversing a century of progression and secularism and becoming ever more Islamified under their nutjob of a prime minister. You do tend to see this in Islamic countries, slow progressive steps are suddenly blown away by a reversion to a more primitive state. Islam cannot evolve and it acts like a coil, dragging back countries where it dominates and it's always led by handful of nutjobs against the general will of the people.
What is in terms of population the largest majority Muslim country? What is their system of governance?
Indonesia and Democratic Corruption.
Women's rights in 'Muslim countries' again what is Muslim countries?
Under Sharia Law, a woman has to have four witnesses to prove an accusation of rape.
Female gentile mutalation.... What the hell are you talking about... Nothing at all to do with Islam...FACT... Honour killings, Again a barbaric cultural phenominum, again nothing to do with Islam, revenge rape... rape is rape... And revenge rape is again nothing to do with Islam...
This is true actually, but I'd argue that woman's lower status, as stated in the Quran, is the fundamental justification for these things happening.
Are there more rapes in the western world or in your o called 'Muslim countries'
There are only more reported rapes in the Western World because it generally isn't worth even reporting them in Islamic countries (apparently there's more reported homosexuals too!) though it's unfair to single out Islam in that respect, because it's clearly a major problem in India and many Christian parts of Africa as well.
There is more much more.... For example why do 'Muslim countries' like Saudi Arabia (with their medieval system receive so much support from the west? You heard of the Skye's picot accord, what was the result dude?
As long as they sell us their oil, buy our military hardware, don't start any wars or don't gas their own people, we don't particularly care who runs whatever country. Our governments are elected to seek the best deal for us.
Why did al quada and Isis become so dominant in Iraq, when they never even had any following there before the gulf wars?
Obviously, we can see now it was better to leave Saddam there! Not said sarcastically.
Who created and funded the Taliban dude? The same Taliban that shoots girls for going to school?
Without really knowing what they were getting into, the Americans made the mistake of supporting and Afghans against the Soviets, and with the benefits of hindsight we can see that was a mistake, though I'd argue an organization like the Taliban was pretty inevitable anyway.
How and why did the Iranian political system come in to place?
It goes back to the Abadan crisis - we, Britain, invested tons of money in discovering and developing Iranian oil and quite clearly has justification in seeking revenue from it (Do you watch Dragon's Den?) which was denied us when it was nationalized, so, together with the Americans, we orchestrated a coup and installed the shah in power. He was a bit corrupt and the people got sick of him and had a revolution to get rid of him, but in much the same way the Bolsheviks hijacked the Russian Revolution, the Islamists hijacked the Iranian one, and Iranians suffer because of this to this day and most of them long to see the end of Islamic rule and the return of a secular and democratic government.
Still the past for you? Why was a military coup in Eygpt so readily accepted by the west?
Because Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood were nutjobs.
Did what I give, provide you with that? As for Iran.... Why do they have the political religious system in charge of that country? If you can't be bothered to do the research, just watch the film Argp... It's also quite entertaining.
Iran did condemn the attacks by the way... Although not in a way that I am completely comfortable with, as they also mentioned povacation.
I'm surprised, I thought there was more religious diversity than that. Turkey is secular though right?
Why not? It's only a cartoon.
It's very easy to say how an event is a bad thing and you don't condone it - that happens all the time. Where is the action? Where are the active attempts to get together and solve the problem of godtards forever?
Where are the masses of people making it publicly clear that extremists are not welcome in their society? Where is the pressure on other countries with large populations of muslamic infidels to separate church from state, to start acting like humans and offer equal rights?
Every time there is a terrorist attack, a handful of dignitaries makes the minimum effort to condemn the attack (notice how they almost never condemn the aims, just the methods), and then everyone just goes back to being a dingdong again.
My biggest problem with Islam and why there is a problem specifically with this religion at this moment in time is that current Islamic teaching emphasises that the Qur'an is to be followed to the letter. It is the word of Allah and has been approved by Allah. This has led to conservatism and extremism and isolationism.
General main stream Christianity now classes the bible as an interpretation and a book of its time.
Also there are not Christian, Jewish or other religious leaders inciting hatred and acts of violence and teaching this as a form of religion. In fact tolerance and understanding of other religions is emphasised generally.
There are more Muslim immams preaching extremism than should be comfortable for those that follow the religion.
The idea of Jihad is still part of mainstream Islamic thought and thinking and debate. The idea of crusades have left the Christian mindset decades or centuries ago.
Ultimately there is a major and growing problem. We should not pander to it or fail to tackle it and it's for the benefit of Muslims and non-Muslims that we do.
We have been too tolerant in this country and others and it has led to the problems we are now faced with.
Whether you're talking about Islam or not there should be no place for the following in a healthy, moderate, forward-thinking society:
*Inequality between men and women;
*Women covering their face as property of their husbands;
*Intolerance and insularity;
*Isolationism;
*Distrust of non-religious education.
All of the above are characteristic of an increasingly conservative Islamic ideology.
Several hundred years ago in this country:
*Arranged marriages were common;
*Women were considered property or second class citizens;
*Education was for a privileged few;
*We fought wars against non Christians in order to convert them;
*The law was almost close to Sharia;
Islam in its current form of teaching is literally a return to the dark ages. That needs to change fast to isolate and expose the extremists.
General main stream Christianity now classes the bible as an interpretation and a book of its time.
Also there are not Christian, Jewish or other religious leaders inciting hatred and acts of violence and teaching this as a form of religion. In fact tolerance and understanding of other religions is emphasised generally.
There are more Muslim immams preaching extremism than should be comfortable for those that follow the religion.
The idea of Jihad is still part of mainstream Islamic thought and thinking and debate. The idea of crusades have left the Christian mindset decades or centuries ago.
Ultimately there is a major and growing problem. We should not pander to it or fail to tackle it and it's for the benefit of Muslims and non-Muslims that we do.
We have been too tolerant in this country and others and it has led to the problems we are now faced with.
Whether you're talking about Islam or not there should be no place for the following in a healthy, moderate, forward-thinking society:
*Inequality between men and women;
*Women covering their face as property of their husbands;
*Intolerance and insularity;
*Isolationism;
*Distrust of non-religious education.
All of the above are characteristic of an increasingly conservative Islamic ideology.
Several hundred years ago in this country:
*Arranged marriages were common;
*Women were considered property or second class citizens;
*Education was for a privileged few;
*We fought wars against non Christians in order to convert them;
*The law was almost close to Sharia;
Islam in its current form of teaching is literally a return to the dark ages. That needs to change fast to isolate and expose the extremists.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Oh for ****s sake. If I could be bothered and if I thought there would be any point....
Re Turkey being secular in a recent poll only 53% of Turks stated that religion plays a significant part in their lives. Similar figures to the UK where Christianity may end up with some large numbers on every census but the reality is that most people who say they are Christian only go to church for baptisms weddings and funerals and probably couldn't give a monkies.
Ok, let me rephrase that.
We gave them a secularist democracy. There was secularism without democracy (not much use) and then they went back to mentalism as a means of running the country.
Dude you to seem ill informed.... Let me educate 1 by 1. My responses to... Um your responses are numbered.
1. You prove my point, Turks are perhaps too nationalist... Turks are also predominantly Sunni.... Hence you can not compare Turkey to Suadi Arabia... Although they are both muslim countries, which leads me nicely in to point two.
2. Turkey was not slowly westernised... The pace of the westernisation was staggeringly fast, for example the adoptation of the the latin script was almost overnight, I'm not a fan of Erdogan, but even his vision of Turkey is far far removed from that of Saudi... His vision is neo ottomanism ... Suadi is Safism
3. Dude let us not talk about democratic corruption... Because it is prevail ant in the west.
4. You take that one (indefensible) example and that's your answer? On woman's rights is it not true that certain Muslim countries gave women the right to vote before the majority of the west? Is it also not true that a number of Muslim countries have had female heads of state, while... America hasn't?
5. I would agree you don't know what you are talking about.... I feel you are being highly selective, in your readings or confusing cultural (barbaric traditions) with Islamic teachings.
6. There has been much written on the under- reporting of rapes in the west as well.
7. This just underlines the level of ignorance that is prevelant.... When sad am gassed the Kurds did we intervene? When Assad gassed his opposition did we intervene? No, we only intervene when it suites our imperialistic and financial interests... Is this right? Do you think that the people living there don't see this? Is this hypocracy not part of the problem... Not even a small part?
8. You still miss the point.
9. So west created and funded the Taliban, which helped grow their ideology... Beyond anything they would have likely achieved without western interference... Yet their rise was inevitable.... Dude, really? Why is it the case that only in countries that the powers have intervened... Either governmentally or in terms of huge corporations, that Muslims extremism have flourish ? Why not in Turkey for example, or many other countries?
Reminds me you did not comment on the Skye's piccot agreement... You know that was confidential right.... A conspiracy theory... Until Lenin exposed it... You do know that right?
10. 'A bit corrupt' are you having a laugh'? Do you know how many he killed and tortured? So because we didn't get the return on the investment that we envisaged we were justified in putting in place a mass murderer... That abused and slaughtered his own people.... But as long as we are alright jack... Who gives a **** what happens to those Persians .... Right? It is exactly that attitude that led to the Iranian revolution....FACT.
11. No they were not nut jobs...not by a long shot definitely not compared to what proceeded or followed them, or compared to states like Saudi... It is possible to argue that they were in competent... And when Erdogan is advising you to be more secular... Then maybe that's a good indication that they were on too much of an Islamic path... However they were the elected leaders... You can't just promote democracy when it suits your interests... Otherwise people will view you as dishonest.
Please do, otherwise it is just me fighting against the ignorance.