****OMT***** Tottenham Hotspur vs. West Bromwich Albion - 26/12/13: 3pm

[BrainOfLevy]

No, you and the other impatients are the joke with some of your comments. Sherwood has had three games in barely a week. Lets be realistic here.

The forwards were really poor both individually and collectively. Ade was the Mk2 version and Soldado is totally out of form and confidence. We were without how many first choice first teamers? Verts, Sandro, Lennon, Townsend, Paulinho, Kaboul, Dembele to name a few. The ball didn't run for us but we had a virtual second string out there today.

Absolutely cretinous to judge Sherwood by today's game.

Just to be clear, I'm not judging Sherwood as a manager or what his ultimate success will be with us on today's game. I'm judging him as a person, and I'm judging the influential people at our club, for forming the circumstances that lead to AVB leaving the club. I'm judging Sherwood because he uses the excuse that he needs time, when he has absolutely contributed to circumstances that meant the previous Head Coach didn't get time. I'm judging the decision makers at our club because they clearly lost their nerve, they've clearly bought into the 'AVB is a fraud' argument and have decided to give the reigns to a 'football man' in Sherwood. They've decided that everything they've heard to reinforce their reservations about AVB has been proved correct and rather give AVB time, they've decided to give that time an unproven managerial novice.

Why have we gotten to this position? That we are choosing to give time to Sherwood rather than AVB? That is what I am calling a joke. If Sherwood thinks he's the man, if he thinks he knows everything AVB was doing wrong and knows how to turn it round, he shouldn't need time. He should get on and do it. Otherwise it's worth giving our highly rated, Europa League winning, record points gaining coach that time to assimilate the 7 new foreign signings into a squad that will fight through the expected initial inconsistent phase.

 

[Pandy]

So Nabil was playing backwards and sideways a lot then.

Wow... what on earth do you expect a CM to do!?!?!?!? Especially as he was the most defensive CM! He made a couple of good forward passes and kept the ball well. If he had passed forwards more, he would have been slated for being too risky, being 'unable to string a pass together', being a liability in possession. I think some of you just want to be annoyed at everyone and everything, just because we didn't win!

 

[onlyme]

Houghton called the game great. Spurs players who did not want the ball. Chadli phoning in a performance. Soldado taking up positions far away from where he is most effective. Chiriches not knowing whether to stick or twist.

My opinion is fits and bursts of good stuff from Eriksen, Holtby and Sigg but I can't really see how they are gonna turn us into title contenders.

Soldado..maybe..he is getting into the right positions.

Rose was our shiner..he was the one making chances. Walker is very good as is Ade..Lloris made a couple of vital saves but he is so f ucking poor at passing the ball.
Dawson saved us a couple of times but like Chiriches he panics if there is not an obvious pass.

To be brutal out of the XI who started today I would take Ade and Rose and Walker and Dawson ( only with Verts) as starters.

All the others are reserves.

 

[Pandy]

So Nabil was playing backwards and sideways a lot then.

Wow... what on earth do you expect a CM to do!?!?!?!? Especially as he was the most defensive CM! He made a couple of good forward passes and kept the ball well. If he had passed forwards more, he would have been slated for being too risky, being 'unable to string a pass together', being a liability in possession. I think some of you just want to be annoyed at everyone and everything, just because we didn't win!

 

[onlyme]

It was his 2nd game, we were not playing well. At least he passed the ball to a white shirt.

 

[lurker of old]

Just home....hmmn, somewhere between very disappointed and just resigned to writing the season off.
The only positive thing is that some of the new players are getting games / time to adjust to this league....and Erickson scored a cracker.

But my main impression watching from the shelf is that we have gone backwards four or five years. Bags of attacking but far too open and not much nous.

 

[Jurgen the German]

How anyone can claim that was any better than under AVB is beyond me. It was exactly the same as our bad performances under him in terms of actual chance creation, except instead of controlled passing it was 'champagne! Tottenham way!' school kids knocking it forward as quickly as possible with the end result being exactly the same.

Slightly better to watch and better subs, but apart from that no it wasn't much better. As Onlyme says, only his 2nd league game.

 

[Pandy]

It was his 2nd game, we were not playing well. At least he passed the ball to a white shirt.

Just posted this in the Lamela thread, but it is more relevant here - the bit in bold implies we attempted/completed a terrible amount of passes.

United 2-2 H: 338 passes, 72% completion, 10 shots
Hull 1-0 H: 576 passes, 86% completion, 15 shots
Norwich 2-0 H: 691 passes, 87% completion, 23 shots
Swansea 1-0 H: 490 passes, 84% completion, 21 shots
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 0-1 H: 521 passes, 85% completion, 31 shots
Chelsea 1-1 H: 436 passes, 80% completion, 12 shots

West Brom 1-1 H: 558 passes, 81% completion, 20 shots

Basically, this was a pretty average passing performance from our team. Yes, we played a bit more direct, and yes our total number of passes and completion rate suffered as a result compared to most of our home games under AVB. But we were by no means the massive crock of sh!t that most of the pathetic doom-mongers around here would have us all believe.

Glad to see witch-hunts and knee-jerks are more the rage than ever around here though.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Where United are is irrelevant. There are six other teams above us. Also, United are on an upward ascent and we are...well we are levelling off at best.

Right. You can't just judge your own team's progress, the fact is Liverpool look like they have overtaken us and Everton have also closed the gap from last season. I am not saying we can't improve, but we have to accept that some teams have caught up to us.

Two seasons ago, NOBODY said we did really well to finish above Chelsea, everybody said they had regressed and finishing above them should have been a given anyway.

 

[thfcsteff]

Just to be clear, I'm not judging Sherwood as a manager or what his ultimate success will be with us on today's game. I'm judging him as a person, and I'm judging the influential people at our club, for forming the circumstances that lead to AVB leaving the club. I'm judging Sherwood because he uses the excuse that he needs time, when he has absolutely contributed to circumstances that meant the previous Head Coach didn't get time. I'm judging the decision makers at our club because they clearly lost their nerve, they've clearly bought into the 'AVB is a fraud' argument and have decided to give the reigns to a 'football man' in Sherwood. They've decided that everything they've heard to reinforce their reservations about AVB has been proved correct and rather give AVB time, they've decided to give that time an unproven managerial novice.

Why have we gotten to this position? That we are choosing to give time to Sherwood rather than AVB? That is what I am calling a joke. If Sherwood thinks he's the man, if he thinks he knows everything AVB was doing wrong and knows how to turn it round, he shouldn't need time. He should get on and do it. Otherwise it's worth giving our highly rated, Europa League winning, record points gaining coach that time to assimilate the 7 new foreign signings into a squad that will fight through the expected initial inconsistent phase.

Mate,

I know you're very upset about it, and I hear you, but you're now surely being unfair. I don't care who the manager is, they need a few games to hit any sort of stride and they need a fairly fit squad.
Trust me, I was not happy about much of what I saw, but we have to consider that…

1) Lennon, Townsend, Paulinho, Vertonghen, Kaboul and Dembele were all unavailable to Sherwood, with over half of those unavailable for a while longer.

2) He is asking different things of the players he has.

Where I think there is a certain naivety is in thinking he can play a modern Premiership match 4-4-2 with a midfield of Chadli, Eriksen, Holtby and Sigurdsson. It is simply not feasible. Bentaleb made a huge difference when came on, and Lamela did more in his 10mins to suggest skill and retention than Ali G did the rest of the game.

I remain hopeful that Sherwood sees this.

Other than that, solving the problem of our CBs is something else; Daws was awful, Vlad was poor but looks to me to be a player in a confidence crisis thus redeemable fully.

We shall see eh?!

But he does earn some time IMO…he should be given it.

 

[P.D.]

Wow... what on earth do you expect a CM to do!?!?!?!? Especially as he was the most defensive CM! He made a couple of good forward passes and kept the ball well. If he had passed forwards more, he would have been slated for being too risky, being 'unable to string a pass together', being a liability in possession. I think some of you just want to be annoyed at everyone and everything, just because we didn't win!

I didn't say I expected different. The point was made that Holtby had a lower pass completion and less passes (in relation to minutes played) today against Bentelab but was passing forwards and in more high risk areas so was expected. The stats back that up.

Really the argument is null and void as they played in totally different areas so we can't really compare.

 

[thfcsteff]

Just posted this in the Lamela thread, but it is more relevant here - the bit in bold implies we attempted/completed a terrible amount of passes.

United 2-2 H: 338 passes, 72% completion, 10 shots
Hull 1-0 H: 576 passes, 86% completion, 15 shots
Norwich 2-0 H: 691 passes, 87% completion, 23 shots
Swansea 1-0 H: 490 passes, 84% completion, 21 shots
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 0-1 H: 521 passes, 85% completion, 31 shots
Chelsea 1-1 H: 436 passes, 80% completion, 12 shots

West Brom 1-1 H: 558 passes, 81% completion, 20 shots

Basically, this was a pretty average passing performance from our team. Yes, we played a bit more direct, and yes our total number of passes and completion rate suffered as a result compared to most of our home games under AVB. But we were by no means the massive crock of sh!t that most of the pathetic doom-mongers around here would have us all believe.

Glad to see witch-hunts and knee-jerks are more the rage than ever around here though.

It's an interesting point, because right now, it'd be great to just put a stop to any of them. Whatever any of us think about past managers and how they have been treated, we have who we have and we are what we are…this is our Spurs. Time to support. For the record, I found today to be very similar to some of the headless games of the 90s under GF…we have more quality now though, so i have to believe it will click. Someone will take a battering very soon at this rate...

 

[thfcsteff]

I didn't say I expected different. The point was made that Holtby had a lower pass completion and less passes (in relation to minutes played) today against Bentelab but was passing forwards and in more high risk areas so was expected. The stats back that up.

Really the argument is null and void as they played in totally different areas so we can't really compare.

I think the debate becomes about whether Holtby can make those passes in the first place or whether you're better off with a tidy distributor getting the ball and finding an Eriksen or Walker…or (prays) Lamela!

 

[Nigeyman]

bit disapointed a win was a must today....didnt see the game.

only positive is we gained on pool & everton but fell further behind others.....

still having problems winning at home....not good.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Mate,

I know you're very upset about it, and I hear you, but you're now surely being unfair. I don't care who the manager is, they need a few games to hit any sort of stride and they need a fairly fit squad.
Trust me, I was not happy about much of what I saw, but we have to consider that…

1) Lennon, Townsend, Paulinho, Vertonghen, Kaboul and Dembele were all unavailable to Sherwood, with over half of those unavailable for a while longer.

2) He is asking different things of the players he has.

Where I think there is a certain naivety is in thinking he can play a modern Premiership match 4-4-2 with a midfield of Chadli, Eriksen, Holtby and Sigurdsson. It is simply not feasible. Bentaleb made a huge difference when came on, and Lamela did more in his 10mins to suggest skill and retention than Ali G did the rest of the game.

I remain hopeful that Sherwood sees this.

Other than that, solving the problem of our CBs is something else; Daws was awful, Vlad was poor but looks to me to be a player in a confidence crisis thus redeemable fully.

We shall see eh?!

But he does earn some time IMO…he should be given it.

I agree with you in that of course he needs time, I'm just not enjoying the fact that the previous guy obviously needed time but wasn't afforded it. Sherwood was the guy not helping AVB 3 games into his reign here by planting the player revolt stories...and suddenly he says he needs time? Great, of course he does. Every coach needs time. That's the whole point of building something.

I will always support Spurs and I know Sherwood needs time, as every coach does, and I am confident it will actually improve under him. I don't think I'm being unfair though in calling out what I consider to be a f'in annoying claim that he needs time when he was part of the problem of the previous coach not getting it. He brought that bit on himself if you ask me.

 

[Lost Mango]

It's an interesting point, because right now, it'd be great to just put a stop to any of them. Whatever any of us think about past managers and how they have been treated, we have who we have and we are what we are…this is our Spurs. Time to support. For the record, I found today to be very similar to some of the headless games of the 90s under GF…we have more quality now though, so i have to believe it will click. Someone will take a battering very soon at this rate...

But there was a witch hunt when AVB was in charge and didn't see too many posts saying to stop it. It should just stop now because different people have got the man they like in charge? Hmmm.

It will only click and someone get a battering if there is structure as well as substance. 3 games in, too early to be definitive, but I'm not seeing a real game plan developing yet. Deadwood will get his 6months period of grace from the hierarchy but that doesn't mean he should be beyond criticism from keyboard warriors and fanzones, even now.

 

[P.D.]

I think the debate becomes about whether Holtby can make those passes in the first place or whether you're better off with a tidy distributor getting the ball and finding an Eriksen or Walker…or (prays) Lamela!

One of the people on twitter who is quite well connected to the club (apparently) said people felt that Holtbys passing wasn't up to scratch.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

I agree with you in that of course he needs time, I'm just not enjoying the fact that the previous guy obviously needed time but wasn't afforded it. Sherwood was the guy not helping AVB 3 games into his reign here by planting the player revolt stories...and suddenly he says he needs time? Great, of course he does. Every coach needs time. That's the whole point of building something.

I will always support Spurs and I know Sherwood needs time, as every coach does, and I am confident it will actually improve under him. I don't think I'm being unfair though in calling out what I consider to be a f'in annoying claim that he needs time when he was part of the problem of the previous coach not getting it. He brought that bit on himself if you ask me.

BOL...is there any proof of this ?

 

[scaramanga]

BOL...is there any proof of this ?

https://mobile.twitter.com/richardajkeys/status/252109876510208001?screen_name=richardajkeys

 

[ArnieArdiles]

https://mobile.twitter.com/richardajkeys/status/252109876510208001?screen_name=richardajkeys

Thanks ..