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****OMT - TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs LAZIO**********

The Moonlit Knight said:
Whether we like it or not, the UEFA Cup and League Cup (and tragically even the FA Cup) are practically worthless nowadays. Had Liverpool won the FA Cup last year they admitted Dalglish would have still got the boot for example.

I don't like it, but the bottom line is if we finish top four and qualify for the Champs League we'll hold on to the Bale's, Lloris's of this world. We finish 5th and win the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup? We almost certainly won't.
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Attempting to do well in the league and in the cups is not mutually exclusive.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Whether we like it or not, the UEFA Cup and League Cup (and tragically even the FA Cup) are practically worthless nowadays. Had Liverpool won the FA Cup last year they admitted Dalglish would have still got the boot for example.

I don't like it, but the bottom line is if we finish top four and qualify for the Champs League we'll hold on to the Bale's, Lloris's of this world. We finish 5th and win the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup? We almost certainly won't.
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If that is true then gonad*s to them. I'd rather win the three trophies than finish fourth. If that really is the case then f*ck 'em.
 
Having a trophy that Europe's best teams can't compete in seems pretty pointless to me. Even the League Cup is probably worth more considering the top 4 English teams compete in it.
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
Whether we like it or not, the UEFA Cup and League Cup (and tragically even the FA Cup) are practically worthless nowadays. Had Liverpool won the FA Cup last year they admitted Dalglish would have still got the boot for example.

I don't like it, but the bottom line is if we finish top four and qualify for the Champs League we'll hold on to the Bale's, Lloris's of this world. We finish 5th and win the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup? We almost certainly won't.
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And if we finish 4th as we did last season we could still have nothing to show for the season.
n bot
Supposing we had made the CL do you suggest we not attempt to play strong teams in both the CL and the league? If we can would play strong teams in the CL then we should be able to do it in the UEFA Cup. The likes of Hudd, Ade, Dawson, Caulker and Dempsey together with some of the players that played on Sunday should be possible. I bet Yaha Youre will be playing in all CL matches and most of the league matches. Fergie will be playing strong teams in the CL this year after not getting past the group stage last year.

Bottom line there is simply no excuse for not taking the Europa Cup seriously
 
COYS said:
Having a trophy that Europe's best teams can't compete in seems pretty pointless to me. Even the League Cup is probably worth more considering the top 4 English teams compete in it.
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crazy. i'd love to win the Europa. Your right i guess, looking forward to Carlisle much more than the Lazio match.
 
COYS said:
Having a trophy that Europe's best teams can't compete in seems pretty pointless to me. Even the League Cup is probably worth more considering the top 4 English teams compete in it.
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You seem to fail to comprehend a simple fact, that if we get knocked out of the Europa Cup / League Cups early or just play kids there will simply not be enough matches to keep our senior players happy.

At the moment AVb is going with Defoe in the league so what happens to Ade if there are no Cup games and vice versa if he decides to go with Ade over Defoe.

How about

Huddlestone
Sandro
Parker
Dembele
Dempsey
Livermore

If there are no cup games a lot of unhappy players will be having limited game time

Consider

Caulker
Dawson
Gallas
Vertonghen
Kaboul (when he comes back)

If we do not have loads of cup games we are going to have some very good central defenders who will have limited playing time.

I agree it is critical to make CL, but that does not rule out attempting to seriously win a cup
 
The only good thing about winning a cup is prestige, but I can't see what prestige there is in beating Europe's 2nd best.

If this holds us back in the league, then why would we want to compete when it's hardly worth it?
 
NaijaSpurs said:
You seem to fail to comprehend a simple fact, that if we get knocked out of the Europa Cup / League Cups early or just play kids there will simply not be enough matches to keep our senior players happy.

At the moment AVb is going with Defoe in the league so what happens to Ade if there are no Cup games and vice versa if he decides to go with Ade over Defoe.

How about

Huddlestone
Sandro
Parker
Dembele
Dempsey
Livermore

If there are no cup games a lot of unhappy players will be having limited game time

Consider

Caulker
Dawson
Gallas
Vertonghen
Kaboul (when he comes back)

If we do not have loads of cup games we are going to have some very good central defenders who will have limited playing time.

I agree it is critical to make CL, but that does not rule out attempting to seriously win a cup
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Then let's not play our best players in these cups, but play our players that would get less of a chance in the league, and if they get knocked out then it's their fault.

Simple as.
 
Lazio have won all 3 league matches so it it would be either stupidity or arrogance to approach this match not playing a strong team and bringing in the likes of Dempsey and Ade definetly does not weaken us
 
We'll be taking the UEFA cup more seriously this year and quite rightly to, it's a very good cup to win with some quality clubs / teams in it. If the squad is managed correctly it can just about cope (with an inevitable addition or 2 in Jan to freshen it up). Providing the manager doesn't let useful squad options go on loan like last Jan, Corluka, Bassong, Pienaar and Pav - could have all helped in keeping 1st choices fresh. I get the feeling AVB won't be as worried about resting a player here or there throughout the season, something that was obvious we needed by the end of last season.
 
COYS said:
Then let's not play our best players in these cups, but play our players that would get less of a chance in the league, and if they get knocked out then it's their fault.

Simple as.
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Do you mean like Adebayor and Dempsey? And Parker when fit?

8-[
 
COYS said:
The only good thing about winning a cup is prestige, but I can't see what prestige there is in beating Europe's 2nd best.

If this holds us back in the league, then why would we want to compete when it's hardly worth it?
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Wouldn't you fancy a Super cup match against Barcelona? We are in europe's second tier. We need to show what were about, get the job done in the Europa - prove that we can do it. So what if we dont give it a good go and then finish 5th 0r 7th? How would that be for a season? Getting knocked out of the Europa early is zero garuntee of success in the league.

Success breeds success.
 
Re: cup competitions, my Gooner mate came out with this gem:

Gooner - "I'd rather go out in the first round of a cup than go all the way to the final and lose. Either way you end up with nothing.
Me - " So when you lot got to the Champions League final against all odds in 2006, but lost to Barcelona in slightly unlucky circumstances, you would have traded that loss for a group stage exit? what about all the great games and triumphs along the way and building up a winning mentality?'
Gooner - 'Errrrr.... whatever, its just extra games where we could've saved our energy for the league.


Is he right? I'm the opposite, I want us to go as far as possible in every tournament we play in. Its not up to me to be worried about the players being 'tired', I just want us to win a trophy, ANY trophy at any given time. I'm rather excited about the Europa, some very good teams in it this year, and no doubt a couple of decent drop outs from the Champs league group stage will join the fray too.
 
Armchair Expert said:
Wouldn't you fancy a Super cup match against Barcelona? We are in europe's second tier. We need to show what were about, get the job done in the Europa - prove that we can do it. So what if we dont give it a good go and then finish 5th 0r 7th? How would that be for a season? Getting knocked out of the Europa early is zero garuntee of success in the league.

Success breeds success.
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I don't agree with that anymore unfortunately. Probably never did actually because a fair few clubs won the FA Cup or League Cup growing up that never went on to seriously challenge for a title.
 
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