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OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur v Brentford FC ***

A very boring watch. At least we didn't lose i suppose.
In fact, was it not Brentford away our last 0-0 draw in the PL in the run-up to us pipping Arsenal to 4th under Conte?

Can anyone explain why Richarlison is starting over Kolo Muani these days?
Odobert started promisingly, but again faded.

The touch and passing from our players again leaves a lot to be desired. I can't work out if that has gotten worse compared to our average last season. But things are already getting toxic judgiung by he away fans booing.

Only wins will do now.
I'm scared for our match at home vs Sunderland on Sunday. If there is a team to exploit our situation atm, it will be them...
 
Bang average players. I’m back with that same line again.

We are a middling side. Two of our best are injured in Kulu and Maddison.

Centre back options are decent.

Rest nope. Hoping the youngsters turn into world beaters is not going to cut it. We are in about the correct league position for this collective of players.

Add back the two mentioned above and Solanke and it might be different.
 
Mabspurs said:
Interesting posts.... did those clamouring for "expansive football" - and slating Frank - actually bother to see yesterday's game? Especially the complete inability of most of those players to string ONE correct pass, particularly when under the smallest of pressure? Vicario having to kick long because we repeatedly lost the ball in our half trying to play out from the back? Do you think Frank tells players to misplace routine 10 yard passes????

The first prerequisite for any coherent football is having players who can actually pass the ball.... and we lack them big time (and the few we do are injured)... thanks to horrendous buying over the past decade.
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I think it is hard for players to pass the ball when it appears they have been forbidden to make forward passes centrally through the midfield. The passing options presented are pretty much exlusively horseshoe shaped, making it extremely easy for the opposition to pick up our players and hard for our players to find a teammate. The upside is that when the opposition turn over the ball we're not exposed defensively in the transition phase. It is very much a safety first tactic that pretty much exclusively worries about ensuring the opposition find it hard to create good chances while not caring that it will be very difficult for us to create good chances ourselves (I think we're trying to win 1-0 via a set piece).
 
Bishop said:
This is my stance, I don't believe what people are asking for is really possible with this slate of players. That doesn't excuse the performances or even a lack of intent, but it does explain the low quality. I'm baffled by what people expect to see?
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A team structure that isn't horseshoe shaped when we're in possession would be a good start.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The narratives build - mostly online - so you reach this point that as soon as things are not perfect people like sheep follow the dominant narrative. It’s not a spurs thing is a malady of modern society. I’ve always ignored the noise and focused on my own opinions, which has done well for me. I used to question my own opinions which often differed to the consensus. But when it made me wealthier than PL footballers I started to trust my analysis and lean into them. I also know what it takes to run organisations, build companies or restructure them. How mangmwnt works in the real world and how long it can take. What kind of people do a good job with it, and the approach they need to take. In Frank we have a manager who’s as good as we can get (right now but top draw probably given time). He may not be able to instil instant success but he can incrementally. He’s not the fastest to analyse and get developments, but he will over time.

Our away form is the best in the league. Our away form is the best in the league…

My only concern is our home form. The edgy atmosphere at home and how intimidated Frank and the team are playing in front of their own baying fans. And dominant narratives - predominantly online - matter here. Everything is amplified. People arrive pizzed off wanting to affirm those negative narratives. Instead of taking an us against the world approach: we’re fighting to improve. Where is the ‘I don’t care what you think we’re in it together’ and we’re coming for you come what may?

With this kind of support, players don’t fear making mistakes. Because the fan base has them. They get more freedom to play, feel looser, more relaxed. How Frank handles the home conundrum is key. Fans are fans. And in this modern world are drawn to negativity.
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The lack of freedom to play is coming from the manager. It is massively evident when Bentancur gets the ball with a forward pass available but instead slows it down and passes to the full back of centre back. Bentancur is a player who is able to spot and play foward passes between the lines, it is pretty clear to me that the manager is coaching those passes not being made.
 
glorygloryeze said:
A very boring watch. At least we didn't lose i suppose.
In fact, was it not Brentford away our last 0-0 draw in the PL in the run-up to us pipping Arsenal to 4th under Conte?

Can anyone explain why Richarlison is starting over Kolo Muani these days?
Odobert started promisingly, but again faded.

The touch and passing from our players again leaves a lot to be desired. I can't work out if that has gotten worse compared to our average last season. But things are already getting toxic judgiung by he away fans booing.

Only wins will do now.
I'm scared for our match at home vs Sunderland on Sunday. If there is a team to exploit our situation atm, it will be them...
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I'd say because Muani looks disinterested in playing for Spurs. He is going through the motions without making sprints.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I'd say because Muani looks disinterested in playing for Spurs. He is going through the motions without making sprints.
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Kept hearing the line last season about how our defenders must hate playing under that style, well if thats the case can certainly say the same about our attackers this season - Muani must wonder what the fudge he signed up for, that does not excuse his lack of effort but will no doubt be a factor.

At least Richi gives his all no matter whether things are going for him or not, would take that over Muani all day.....
 
Finney Is Back said:
I'd say because Muani looks disinterested in playing for Spurs. He is going through the motions without making sprints.
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Ok. What games have you seen form his here that you are comparing his play to recent performances that gives you that feeling?
This is me assuming you've seen at least one game he's played for us when he didn't look disinterested
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok. What games have you seen form his here that you are comparing his play to recent performances that gives you that feeling?
This is me assuming you've seen at least one game he's played for us when he didn't look disinterested
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He looked like he was trying in the game he played against his parent club.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The lack of freedom to play is coming from the manager. It is massively evident when Bentancur gets the ball with a forward pass available but instead slows it down and passes to the full back of centre back. Bentancur is a player who is able to spot and play foward passes between the lines, it is pretty clear to me that the manager is coaching those passes not being made.
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No, apparently despite the best efforts of our manager and his extensive coaching team the players are incapable of passing the ball forward. It can’t be the manager as he hasn’t been here for 2 years yet.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Ok. What games have you seen form his here that you are comparing his play to recent performances that gives you that feeling?
This is me assuming you've seen at least one game he's played for us when he didn't look disinterested
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I'm a bit wary of the Muani is lazy trope. Maybe he's a bit nonplussed in body language like Berbatov or Vertonghen. But I'm a bit alert to a race element surfacing here.
 
Mcfee said:
No, apparently despite the best efforts of our manager and his extensive coaching team the players are incapable of passing the ball forward. It can’t be the manager as he hasn’t been here for 2 years yet.
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This is the first season where I have seen us completely avoiding forward passes through the centre of the pitch.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm a bit wary of the Muani is lazy trope. Maybe he's a bit nonplussed in body language like Berbatov or Vertonghen. But I'm a bit alert to a race element surfacing here.
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I don't think he is lazy. I just don't think he wants to play for Spurs.

Kanoute is an example of a player who was labelled as lazy by a lot of Spurs fans, though I never thought he was lazy at all. I actually thought he was massively underrated by our fans.
 
How did how we played yesterday compare to how we played vs Palace on Sunday?
I didn't see the Palace game at all but watched us yesterday
 
When I think more about the game I still think the following

1) a complete lack of consideration from some about the impact of missing players, We were without Udogie, Bergval, Sarr, Xavi, Kulu, Madds, Johnson, Solanke. I could. build a case for every single one of them either starting or coming off the bench in this fixture, except Johnson. As for Johnson, I'm proud of my club for making a brave decision and taking the short term pain to get the next guy in.

2) The defensive patterns is a joy to watch for me. These guys are just pivoting into a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 at ease in this phase of the season. So much hard work has been done that we can end up with different players in different positions of the 4-4-2 e.g. Gray becoming the 9 and shutting down the centre halves. Sometimes Gray was in there with Palhinha whilst Bents had become the right midfielder and Kudus was higher up. Some great work by Frank to build this defensive strategy out for another clean sheet.

3) Moving to the next level and getting a better offensive strategy is Frank's next focus. We've said all season that can't work with a double pivot of Pal / Bents. That was abundantly clear yesterday. It won't work with Richi as a 9 either. He can't hold the ball up and isn't winning fouls. There's no pace their either to scare the opposition. Change just a couple of these things and we will start to see a difference. Then get some player movement off the ball and I think things will look a lot different.

4) The last thing is the left channel. Ours just doesn't work. When they showed on screen how effective Rico Henry's left side was for Brentford yesterday, it was very telling that we haven't had that all season. Someone said earlier about Kudus being doubled up and being less effective. That wasn't the case yesterday. We just got swept away by theirs, and Kudus needed to get his head down and stop it. He didn't until the second half. Porro, on the other hand, was amazing sticking to the task and somehow keeping them at bay. We definitely need a leftie coming into the club this window in either the full-back or left-wing positions. We need a major signing there.
 
I understand the football was not great yesterday. But we had the following attack minded players unavailable
Maddison
Solanke
Deki
Xavi
Bergvall
Sarr
We have Kolo Muani who just keeps trying to play the same flick every game without success.
And Brendan Johnson has pretty much left
I think the strategy of not losing at a difficult away ground was correct.
As for patterns of play? Arsenal have a better squad of players with a manager who has been there 6 years or more and YET their most effective pattern of play to get results is from set pieces!

Liverpool are on a poor run under a Championship winning manager and City? They drew 0-0 too.

We really do need patience with this manager and team. I'm going on Sunday to cheer the team on. I think we will draw but given the number of absentees I'm not sure what patterns of play the manager is supposed to have already established?
 
Finney Is Back said:
The lack of freedom to play is coming from the manager. It is massively evident when Bentancur gets the ball with a forward pass available but instead slows it down and passes to the full back of centre back. Bentancur is a player who is able to spot and play foward passes between the lines, it is pretty clear to me that the manager is coaching those passes not being made.
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That isn’t the case.

This is what has happened: we tried to play instant fast counter-attacks at every opportunity. We ended up handing possession back to the opposition and losing. We would look for that instant break, the ball wasn’t quite on, and we would cede possession.

So Frank has said to the team: if you’re not confident in making the pass, recycle it. As the side develops its movement and passing, this makes sense.

It is massively frustrating how low on confidence the forwards are. We routinely miss simple short passes. Richie yesterday had 3-4 where if he gets the short pass right we are baring down on goal. We’re zhit in attack and have been since the start of the season. Who’d have guessed it when missing so many first choice attackers.
 
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