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***OMT: Mighty Spurs vs Aston Villa***

Grays_1890 said:
Managers do that in private, I would have been all for him doing it in private, I would have expected he already had. Again I would argue that managers that come out and have an outburst to that scale don't stay in jobs. We could argue about that scale but I would then say you should go back and watch it and judge it again if you don't think it was OTT for public viewing. Lets be clear my issue is not with the so called truths, its the level and it being in public.

Well Mason changed formation and Dier was on the bench last week so I will stick with my underlining opinion that changes could be made which we never saw from Conte. Conte played players week in week out regardless of rank form and then slammed those players....At least for better or worse Mason has looked for solutions to problems that this squad faces rather than have a meltdown in public about the issues faced.

Well of course its a generalisation because I won't be drawn into personal rows which are all the more frequent on here, and frankly life is too short. But its does not take a detective to notice those that have made Conte a martyr who then have already made their mind up about how the future is unfolding, have negative pops at Mason, mention negatives about Spurs in multiple threads, even in the general chats where people can't praise another club without a snide dig about Spurs, its literally the same people. Now I know people will argue that I am the other way, I have no doubt, but I actually go out my way to call the bad bad and the good good, the bad might outweigh the bad, no doubt about that, no argument there, but I won't be someone that says everything is bad and one person is at definitive fault like some do, thats a clear bias.

No doubt in my mind that there are people that are beyond negative on here and the negativity does not always match the reality IMO
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It's a personal thing but I can't really get behind the need for people withholding their emotion in press conferences time in time out, fulfilling the flimflam PR angle to not upset the apple cart, especially if the end result doesn't match the standards of the person who is expected to answer the same questions again and again.

On Mason, interestingly I get more annoyed about the toxic positivity (which I appreciate may be a personality problem on my part). It's unlikely he's the answer but because he does things that any fan would ie changing formation and early subs when the brick hits the fan he's been made out to be brilliant, the messiah even (interesting martyr versus messiah religious subtext to the discussion going on!).

I'm not sure I really get your labelling of Conte as a martyr but I guess that's because I don't think telling the truth should be a self sacrificing act if you have enough experience to suggest that certain standards aren't being met. At risk of sounding like a fanboy of Antonio I do think he gave everything he could to the club but the players just didn't get it, they're the type to let themselves down so there's no pressure. Lord knows how to change it.

Spurs' position in the game does come in to play here, I think there should be some allowance for frustration given how close we were to achieving real things but yet so far in the last decade. We (the club) have managed to put ourselves in an easily mocked position by being so close to glory but yet so far, it's better than being totally irrelevant of course but I do think it accounts for some of the perceived drama. Like how N'dombele has won more major league titles than Kane during their time as players at Spurs, that brick is irrefutably true and funny simultaneously.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Spurs' position in the game does come in to play here, I think there should be some allowance for frustration given how close we were to achieving real things but yet so far in the last decade. We (the club) have managed to put ourselves in an easily mocked position by being so close to glory but yet so far, it's better than being totally irrelevant of course but I do think it accounts for some of the perceived drama. Like how N'dombele has won more major league titles than Kane during their time as players at Spurs, that brick is irrefutably true and funny simultaneously.
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But thats probably a great example of my point. Yes its a fact but its a fact with context, context in that Kane is undoubtedly a world class record breaking player and Ndombele is a lazy cnut, people will claim that facts are facts and that Kane not winning things will be all he is remembered for or mention the word failure....Ndombele having a league title and Kane not is an example for me why its not always the full picture.

Thats not undue positivity thats just that like with most things there is an element of context behind facts, especially in football.
 
Grays_1890 said:
But thats probably a great example of my point. Yes its a fact but its a fact with context, context in that Kane is undoubtedly a world class record breaking player and Ndombele is a lazy cnut, people will claim that facts are facts and that Kane not winning things will be all he is remembered for or mention the word failure....Ndombele having a league title and Kane not is an example for me why its not always the full picture.

Thats not undue positivity thats just that like with most things there is an element of context behind facts, especially in football.
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If we're going to narrow it down to that specific point, I don't think the label of "lazy clam" can be seriously argued towards any top level footballer. The reality is what it is and N'dombele is a part of it, what has happened is what has happened, Tanguy has medal and has worked hard for it even if it doesn't fit the narrative of him being useless on here.

Not sure what you mean by undue positivity but that's not what I was talking about in regards to toxic positivity at all..
 
paxtonwolf said:
I think there a lot of Spurs fans who would be happy with that outcome. I'm not one of them, would really be happy with 6th if we could find a way to win the last 2 and pray for help. But would accept 7th and Conference League Thursday nights, providing we balance the games in the correct way
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Who doesn't love Spursday? Straight in the pub after work for a 6pm KO.
 
spurspinter1 said:
If we're going to narrow it down to that specific point, I don't think the label of "lazy clam" can be seriously argued towards any top level footballer. The reality is what it is and N'dombele is a part of it, what has happened is what has happened, Tanguy has medal and has worked hard for it even if it doesn't fit the narrative of him being useless on here.

Not sure what you mean by undue positivity but that's not what I was talking about in regards to toxic positivity at all..
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I was being extreme but let's be real, Kane is a much better footballer regardless, so the no trophy = failure or otherwise still does not provide full context to things. Which is my overarching point. Ndombele being a medal winner doesn't make him a more successful footballer

Ultimately the so called facts often lack any kind of context




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Grays_1890 said:
I was being extreme but let's be real, Kane is a much better footballer regardless, so the no trophy = failure or otherwise still does not provide full context to things. Which is my overarching point. Ndombele being a medal winner doesn't make him a more successful footballer




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Right....It still wasn't what we were discussing on the whole and is still entirely subjective, depends on your view of what being a footballer is - Would you rather break records or win trophies? It's an interesting discussion but not what my initial reference to the Kane / Tanguy stat was referring to at all.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Right....It still wasn't what we were discussing on the whole and is still entirely subjective, depends on your view of what being a footballer is - Would you rather break records or win trophies? It's an interesting discussion but not what my initial reference to the Kane / Tanguy stat was referring to at all.
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But alas it was part of mine about so called truths lacking any kind of context. The example given was just my take on that.



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paxtonwolf said:
I think there a lot of Spurs fans who would be happy with that outcome. I'm not one of them, would really be happy with 6th if we could find a way to win the last 2 and pray for help. But would accept 7th and Conference League Thursday nights, providing we balance the games in the correct way
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6th yes, happy with EL
ECL, no thanks
 
Grays_1890 said:
But alas it was part of mine about so called truths lacking any kind of context. The example given was just my take on that.



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Okay, well done on shutting down the discourse I guess....? If it helps you laying in to anyone addressing the reality of the situation all power to you.

FYI - The specific stat remains true whether you're salty about it or not, obviously Kane's a better footballer.
 
markysimmo said:
6th yes, happy with EL
ECL, no thanks
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I wouldnt usually agree as always prefer us to bt in Europe, however with a new manager needing to settle in and possibly a difficult summer window given the DoF/manager combo not having time to plan together, perhaps having the extra time on the training pitch next season might be better. Would also mean we could run with a smaller squad, so fewer players to sign this summer
 
spurspinter1 said:
Okay, well done on shutting down the discourse I guess....? If it helps you laying in to anyone addressing the reality of the situation all power to you.

FYI - The specific stat remains true whether you're salty about it or not, obviously Kane's a better footballer.
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Not trying to shut down the discourse I just don't believe things are as bad as people often make out and I certainly don't believe it's bad enough for the negativity to spread just as much as it does.



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