***Official Match Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool Sat. 20th Dec. 5:30pm***

[thfcsteff]

Because he's being tasked with being our playmaker and thus he makes the dangerous passes. He shouldn't be our sole ball player, that's actually the cause of the issue more so than the actual pass. If you have all of your critical passes coming from a CB these mistakes will happen. This is a deeply structural issue and one that will consistently bite us in the arse.

You can't ask him to play through the lines and expect him to get it right every time, no one can do that and certainly not Romero, his passing isn't that amazing.

100% this. It was an ambitious pass to Muani which was (obviously) poorly executed, but you're on point IMO, he is being tasked as the main playmaker and as such, a massive issue in an of itself. We're back at the 'what we need' versus 'does the manager want what we see we need'...

 

[thfcsteff]

Kudus doesn't have the ability to run at players? He played a great ball to Bergvall in the second half, there were a few breaks with easier passes on for him but instead he went backwards. That's coming from Frank. He should be getting instructions to go forward when we are breaking. It's nothing to do with ability.

THSI!
I'd like someone to explain to me why we didn't play Muani off Richy today? That scouse defence was there for the roughing and taking, indeed, the spaces between FBs and CBs was huge. Yet once again we ask Muani to try and be the hold-up 9, and many times when breaking we simply don't have a pattern/trigger system to release players beyond the ball. The Kudus situation is becoming comical; he clearly can beat his man, maybe two, on half a dozen clear occasions a matchm yet most of these see him having to check and go backwards because we don't have enough forward and Frank instructs him to hold it!!!! Madness.

 

[thfcsteff]

Personally, I thought he was a disgrace for two incidents. First half, Spence created some space and sprints towards their area (think it was when Bradley fell over). He has no one within 10 yards to help him. Muani is jogging up behind him. Unforgivable.

Second half we launched a long one and are desperate for a ball to stick. He didn’t even jump for it.

He can fudge off for all I care and I do think he’s a boy with talent. If you aren’t good enough, fair enough. If you can’t be bothered, that’s a million times worse.

I saw that and did a double-take!!!!
FWIW I thought Spence was really good today, so positive.

 

[tommysvr]

I thought the best thing to come out of the game was that for once it wasn't the Spurs players who were the enemy. The crowd found a bit of that siege mentality when the ref started to do his thing. The red card was the correct decision and it's pretty pathetic to boo van Dijk for being fouled...but at the same time I thought it was great. Better than booing your own players or condescending cheers for Vicario.

Fully expect things to go back to normal pretty soon though, because we are made of teflon.

 

[braineclipse]

THSI!
I'd like someone to explain to me why we didn't play Muani off Richy today? That scouse defence was there for the roughing and taking, indeed, the spaces between FBs and CBs was huge. Yet once again we ask Muani to try and be the hold-up 9, and many times when breaking we simply don't have a pattern/trigger system to release players beyond the ball. The Kudus situation is becoming comical; he clearly can beat his man, maybe two, on half a dozen clear occasions a matchm yet most of these see him having to check and go backwards because we don't have enough forward and Frank instructs him to hold it!!!! Madness.

I obviously don't know why. But I don't think we can play Richarlison every game and not expect him to break down.

I thought the setup was quite good today. Kept Gray in a deeper role in a bigger game. Bergvall cutting in from the left I quite like. And even though Liverpool weren't particularly good the performances up until the first red was rather promising.

There were some situations for sure. Checking back, not attacking space. Difficult to understand. But not sure if it's systematic or more an issue of decision making and the players struggling for confidence.

 

[thfcsteff]

I obviously don't know why. But I don't think we can play Richarlison every game and not expect him to break down.

I thought the setup was quite good today. Kept Gray in a deeper role in a bigger game. Bergvall cutting in from the left I quite like. And even though Liverpool weren't particularly good the performances up until the first red was rather promising.

There were some situations for sure. Checking back, not attacking space. Difficult to understand. But not sure if it's systematic or more an issue of decision making and the players struggling for confidence.

We had a full week between games for the first time in an age, thus it would have been just like resting him for a midweek match.

If there was a concensus that the shape was right, and not one for two forwards, then Richy should've started the game with Muani as an option off the bench IMO. I have to say I thought before the first goal was a messy affair between two teams struggling to find anything. I didn't think we showed any real cohesion.

I think decision making and confidence are absolutely part of the equation (it cannot be one thing only) however again, in that regard, we again look like a side with no cohesive plan beyond an early break down the wings and hope we break/transition fast enough to make it count (tough when most people are behind the ball/halfway line).

 

[braineclipse]

We had a full week between games for the first time in an age, thus it would have been just like resting him for a midweek match.

If there was a concensus that the shape was right, and not one for two forwards, then Richy should've started the game with Muani as an option off the bench IMO. I have to say I thought before the first goal was a messy affair between two teams struggling to find anything. I didn't think we showed any real cohesion.

I think decision making and confidence are absolutely part of the equation (it cannot be one thing only) however again, in that regard, we again look like a side with no cohesive plan beyond an early break down the wings and hope we break/transition fast enough to make it count (tough when most people are behind the ball/halfway line).

I think it's close between Muani and Richarlison. Very different players offering very different things. We missed what Richarlison offers with Muani, but the opposite would probably have been true had Richarlison started.

Agreed that it was far from a game between two good looking teams. But also thought we were the better team and created the better chances up until the red.

They didn't press us much, that obviously suits us. So difficult to compare to games where teams have pressed us high and well.

I agree that we didn't look cohesive as such going forward, but to me some positive signs in that direction. I'll take that along with a more attacking lineup at this point.

 

[Mrs Vert]

We were a last option for him I imagine, that's why it happened so late in the window.

He rejected us in Jan, doesn't really want to be here now.

We have to stop signing people who dont wanna be here. Its what filters to the club when people cannot be arsed. Tel was getting on like he could have gone anywhere else. (He tries I know, but dont know why we signed him) Werner extension was woeful. . Kudus was fire when he came.....Sarr looked good now doesn't.

What does the club do and it continues to allow players to get away with mediocrity. We hold onto players to long. Keep playing certain players who need dropping. Won't give some players a chance. This isnt just TF its every manager we bloody have.We will go onto manager 20 and things will remain the same

 

[Mrs Vert]

How the fudge the referee and VAR have missed Ekitké pushing Romero in the back with two hands I will never know.

Cos he was consistent with helping them for 98min
The inconsistent of VAR is infuriating. The "rules never apply to each game" Saudi Sportswashing Machine had a Stonewall pen and got blanked
The tinklepoor explanation is inexplicable

 

[Mrs Vert]

One of the guys near me has said almost since he joined that he doesn’t want to be here.

The effort he made against PSG has not been seen in prem game. He should have had at least scored 3 by now.
And as crap as Rich is at least you see at times he cares.
Thats our problem. Sometimes lesser players make effort and cant do more. And better players can't be arsed

 

[Mrs Vert]

I think it's close between Muani and Richarlison. Very different players offering very different things. We missed what Richarlison offers with Muani, but the opposite would probably have been true had Richarlison started.

Agreed that it was far from a game between two good looking teams. But also thought we were the better team and created the better chances up until the red.

They didn't press us much, that obviously suits us. So difficult to compare to games where teams have pressed us high and well.

I agree that we didn't look cohesive as such going forward, but to me some positive signs in that direction. I'll take that along with a more attacking lineup at this point.

We couldn't even do basic passing in first half . Unforced errors by more than 1 player
We looked ok cos pool were bloody awful. I thought they would be intense and it wasn't. They did less than us, if that was possible

 

[Bishop]

THSI!
I'd like someone to explain to me why we didn't play Muani off Richy today? That scouse defence was there for the roughing and taking, indeed, the spaces between FBs and CBs was huge. Yet once again we ask Muani to try and be the hold-up 9, and many times when breaking we simply don't have a pattern/trigger system to release players beyond the ball. The Kudus situation is becoming comical; he clearly can beat his man, maybe two, on half a dozen clear occasions a matchm yet most of these see him having to check and go backwards because we don't have enough forward and Frank instructs him to hold it!!!! Madness.

I'm guessing because Richy has recently been very poor in terms of form and really didn't deserve a start. So we went for something different, the idea seemed to be to get Bergvall on the pitch to tuck in to provide an extra body and at the same time work as ball carrier who can break and support the attack. It obviously didn't really work because in the first half we didn't really get anything off the left beyond the solo runs Spence made. The lack of balance in the attack is always a big issue for me.

I think we are still in a world where the lack of a left winger (today by choice, he could have started Odobert) and a complete striker makes the attack very incomplete. And stymies the linked qualities we do have.