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O/T How long will it be until a team wins the Premier League playing 4-4-2

Gutter Boy said:
Which is exactly what happened 10 times in a row last spring when we tried it. When Redknapp reactivated his 4-4-2 habit after we beat Saudi Sportswashing Machine, we pulled our pants down for teams week after week by going a man short in midfield. It cost us CL and it cost Redknapp his job.
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Did it cost us games? or was it our inability to finish off our 20 chances a game that was the cause? So many games where we had created chance after chance but no goals.

This time round we are not even creating chances so as far as im concerned id like us to be a bit more expansive and at least lose with some dignity rather than yesterdays fiasco.

Its funny because actually its the so called anti Harry/ pro AVB phalanx that keeps on bringing up the Harry comparison.
 
Also I just wanna point out. Last season people had a go at Harry for not being flexible in his tactics i.e. not adapting tactics for various scenarios. HELLO WHAT THE fudge IS AVB DOING? There is certainly a case to keep the tactics for away games I think it works pretty well. Not at home though. So we are allowed to have more than one formation.
 
DHSF said:
Because at the moment our personnel suits 442.

Why are so many people hell bent on a formation that at present, with the current crop of players we have at our disposal, is brick?
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Ok

Which player is suitable for the #10/second striker (Sheringham/vdV/Rooney) role?
Which player is suitable for the #8 (Gascoigne/Scholes) role?
Do we have really 2 CMs capable of going toe-to-toe with other teams' 3 CMs?
Huddlestone and Livermore vs Toure, Nasri and Silva?
 
Berbatov/Keane, Sheringham/Klinsmann....if only, if only.
 
DHSF said:
Also I just wanna point out. Last season people had a go at Harry for not being flexible in his tactics i.e. not adapting tactics for various scenarios. HELLO WHAT THE fudge IS AVB DOING? There is certainly a case to keep the tactics for away games I think it works pretty well. Not at home though. So we are allowed to have more than one formation.
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Our formation is flexible, because we should be attacking as 4-3-3.

I really don't think the formation is the issue. Having no #9 and no ballplayers in midfield are the issue. Play any formation and that doesn't change.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Ok

Which player is suitable for the #10/second striker (Sheringham/vdV/Rooney) role?
Which player is suitable for the #8 (Gascoigne/Scholes) role?
Do we have really 2 CMs capable of going toe-to-toe with other teams' 3 CMs?
Huddlestone and Livermore vs Toure, Nasri and Silva?
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4-3-1-2
 
Gutter Boy said:
Ok

Which player is suitable for the #10/second striker (Sheringham/vdV/Rooney) role?
Which player is suitable for the #8 (Gascoigne/Scholes) role?
Do we have really 2 CMs capable of going toe-to-toe with other teams' 3 CMs?
Huddlestone and Livermore vs Toure, Nasri and Silva?
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As for the midfield id like for the other team to worry about us. I like to think more along the lines of how will they be able to handle Bale and Lennon with those three in CM? How ill they be able to handle our width and pace?

Second striker? id give it to Ade alongside Defoe. Ade drops deep anyways and drifts out wide etc. So he can do that role. He isnt a VDV or a Rooney

Scholes Gazza role? it would have to be Dembele putting him alongside Sandro.

By the way I did make another post that I think there is a case for more than one formation. This is what AVB has to recognise and this is what Harry was criticised for i.e. he wasnt tactical. Well here we are with AVB and he has persisted (especially at home) with this 4231 which clearly does not work at home .

I just want someone who is open to changing it up a bit mixing it up.
 
as long as there is a striking partnership, im not too fussed how we line up behind them

4-3-1-2.....or 4-4-2.....or 3-5-2....or 4-1-3-2 I couldnt care less.
 
Gutter Boy said:
80s nostalgia.

4-4-2. Simple game. Run about a bit. Tactics are for Champ Man geeks. Ketchup and chips pre-match meal. Defoe can be anonomous for 89 minutes so long as he toes one in. Fancy dan foreigners - no good for rainy Tuesday nights at Grimsby...
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What formation do you think United have played in their last two games?
 
DHSF said:
Because at the moment our personnel suits 442.

Why are so many people hell bent on a formation that at present, with the current crop of players we have at our disposal, is brick?
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Our current personnel in no way suit that. One injury to a striker and we would be a striker short of 442. Which would force us moving to one up top.
 
Just to try and get this thread back on topic, it wasn't meant to be a discussion on Spurs and formations, we have a couple of those already. It was intended to be a discussion about whether 4-4-2 is finished for top team or whether talk of its demise is premature.
 
I didn't want 442 last season because it meant no VDV, or wasting him on the right. We don't have him now and he hasn't been adequately replaced so I'd go Defoe and Ade up top for most games, I don't see why you'd want to impose a formation which means you have to field a weaker player. Our top 5 passers from last season are either gone, injured or not being picked.

Lloris; Walker, Kaboul, Vertonghen, Ekotto; Lennon, Sandro, Dembele, Bale; Adebayor, Defoe

That would be my choice for a lot of games, but for games such as the next two(City and Arsenal away I'd go)

Lloris; Walker, Kaboul, Vertonghen, Ekotto; Sandro, Parker, Dembele; Lennon, Bale, Adebayor

Unfortunately we have a bunch of important injuries right now, that coupled with us playing quick, direct wingers with just a midget to aim for, which to me seems counter-productive.
 
milo said:
Just to try and get this thread back on topic, it wasn't meant to be a discussion on Spurs and formations, we have a couple of those already. It was intended to be a discussion about whether 4-4-2 is finished for top team or whether talk of its demise is premature.
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hahaha good luck with that......
 
milo said:
What formation do you think United have played in their last two games?
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4-4-1-1. Which isn't too disimilar to what we played with vdV; though that became 4-2-3-1 depending how deep into midfield he dropped (and Rooney has been doing similar).

What I really dislike is proper 4-4-2, when you have 2 strikers stood with their hands on their hips at the halfway line watching our midfield being overrun, like happened in the final third of last season with two of Defoe, Saha and Ade.

I could cope with 4-4-1-1 if one of Dempsey or Sig were playing in the hole behind Ade.

Ade and Defoe is a big no-no for me though - receipe for disaster.
 
Ade drops off all around the pitch, is always running the channels and is involved in a hell of a lot of build up play. That's generally why he touches the ball 5x much as Defoe, so no he doesn't just stand around upfront with his hands on his hips. Ade and Defoe is no different to Tevez and Aguero in that respect. I find it strange just how much you support a system and formation whilst dismissing the players you have to work with. Dempsey and Siggy so far have offered practically nothing, whether that's entirely their fault is up for debate, but you're saying you'd rather Bob from row 17 block 33 played in the centre of a 4231, just as long as it's not 442 :|
 
Gutter Boy said:
4-4-1-1. Which isn't too disimilar to what we played with vdV; though that became 4-2-3-1 depending how deep into midfield he dropped (and Rooney has been doing similar).

What I really dislike is proper 4-4-2, when you have 2 strikers stood with their hands on their hips at the halfway line watching our midfield being overrun, like happened in the final third of last season with two of Defoe, Saha and Ade.

I could cope with 4-4-1-1 if one of Dempsey or Sig were playing in the hole behind Ade.

Ade and Defoe is a big no-no for me though - receipe for disaster.
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Sorry Gutter but a major handicap for us is starting with ten men and yesterday playing two thirds of the game with nine men. Ade and Defoe would be much better than Sig/Dempsey and Ade simply because both have offered jack brick. I constantly hear lets see what theyre like with Ade but Defoe deserves to start games and Ade would offer ten fold what Sig/Dempsey have done thus far.
 
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