O/T: Hitzlsperger: I Am Gay

[Jurgen the German]

KD: Why do you think there are no openly gay footballers in the top European leagues or in the professional English leagues?

I don't think football fans on the terraces are enlightened enough to accept a gay player sadly. In private they may not have a problem with it, but can you imagine the abuse gay players would get once fans get into their mob mentality on matchdays.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Tbh, I do find it odd that people can be straight then either gradually or suddenly change to being gay. I always thought you either like women or men. I could see how people could possibly change to liking both, but the idea seems foreign to me that people could change from one to the other, but I guess it can happen.

look at it this way:

a person is gay but doesn't want to be gay. there will be family issues, friend issues, potentially work issues, social consequences. he's seen how his peers, family members and some parts of society at large and the media react to gays so he thinks 'nah, i'm not comfortable with this... maybe it's just a phase, maybe it'll pass?'

so he carries on, some times for years, until he finally feels happy with himself, comfortable in his skin, mature enough and ready to be himself. he finally has the confidence to live as he really wants. so, eventually, he comes out (an awful phrase in itself).

so it's not a case or gradually or suddenly turning gay. it's a case of being ready to accept it yourself, and then hoping that others are ready to accept it as well.

 

[Jurgen the German]

look at it this way:

a person is gay but doesn't want to be gay. there will be family issues, friend issues, potentially work issues, social consequences. he's seen how his peers, family members and some parts of society at large and the media react to gays so he thinks 'nah, i'm not comfortable with this... maybe it's just a phase, maybe it'll pass?'

so he carries on, some times for years, until he finally feels happy with himself, comfortable in his skin, mature enough and ready to be himself. he finally has the confidence to live as he really wants. so, eventually, he comes out (an awful phrase in itself).

so it's not a case or gradually or suddenly turning gay. it's a case of being ready to accept it yourself, and then hoping that others are ready to accept it as well.

I fully understand that. Basically the person was gay all along but he didn't want to admit for any particular reason. That's what I was saying before, surely you are born gay or born straight?

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I fully understand that. Basically the person was gay all along but he didn't want to admit for any particular reason. That's what I was saying before, surely you are born gay or born straight?

Yes, personally I think you're born either way. I didn't choose to be straight and my friend who's gay didn't choose that either.

I do think that there may be an element of nuture that can also have some limited influence but I think it's mainly genetic.

But just because you're born gay doesn't mean you're comfortable with it and can live as openly gay from your teenage years. It takes some people years, decades even, to accept it and then perhaps even more time to feel comfortable enough to go public with it.

 

[milo]

Well it happens so I can't dispute it but I just find it strange. I can't remember exactly how old I was when I first started to like girls, but I must have been about 6 or 7, I remember having a crush on the same girl all the way through primary school and for at least a year before that.

The difference being that being straight is the norm and we all experience social conditioning towards being heterosexual.

Most gay people that I have discussed this with have dated women whilst growing up. This wasn't because they were sexually attracted to women but because they were expected to.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The difference being that being straight is the norm and we all experience social conditioning towards being heterosexual.

Most gay people that I have discussed this with have dated women whilst growing up. This wasn't because they were sexually attracted to women but because they were expected to.

So it goes back to what I said before, no one chooses to be gay or straight.

 

[DHSF]

So it goes back to what I said before, no one chooses to be gay or straight.

I agree. I dont think anyone is born as a gay person as such but I also dont think they choose. I think it just happens. Its like straight people... it just happens that we are straight. We didnt really reach a point in life and go ok 'shall I be gay or straight'.

 

[milo]

So it goes back to what I said before, no one chooses to be gay or straight.

Sexuality is a spectrum rather than two polar opposites, so I am sure that there are some people who choose but likewise many don't.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree. I dont think anyone is born as a gay person as such but I also dont think they choose. I think it just happens. Its like straight people... it just happens that we are straight. We didnt really reach a point in life and go ok 'shall I be gay or straight'.

Exactly. I just don't see why anyone would choose to be gay purely because it means you making life that much more difficult for yourself as there still somewhat of a stigma attached to it in some people's eyes, I couldn't care less personally. As Milo pointed out, most people are straight and it's seen as the norm.

 

[milo]

Exactly. I just don't see why anyone would choose to be gay purely because it means you making life that much more difficult for yourself as there still somewhat of a stigma attached to it in some people's eyes, I couldn't care less personally. As Milo pointed out, most people are straight and it's seen as the norm.

They've got some very good nightclubs

 

[scaramanga]

They've got some very good nightclubs

And clothes.

 

[Hootnow]

And clothes.

And have you seen how much sex they have as well

Brave of Hitzlsperger to come out. Hopefully we get a few more coming out soon who are actually still playing and we on the terraces prove that we're not the Neanderthals everyone thinks we are...

 

[Papercut]

And clothes.

Hope you're not referring to Little Britain there Scara :lol:

 

[scaramanga]

Hope you're not referring to Little Britain there Scara :lol:

No, I'm quite serious. There's a lot of clothes that I really like that a straight man just can't get away with.

There's also the DINK effect to take into account. Most cohabiting gay couples are dual-income no kids households so expendable income tends to be high. Add to that the fact that men still tend to earn more than women and you have the opportunity for some really good shopping.

That means even more nice clothes.

 

[Stenno]

Not to mention the benefits of sharing a wardrobe.. So long as you're not a chubby chaser.

 

[Craig_J]

look at it this way:

a person is gay but doesn't want to be gay. there will be family issues, friend issues, potentially work issues, social consequences. he's seen how his peers, family members and some parts of society at large and the media react to gays so he thinks 'nah, i'm not comfortable with this... maybe it's just a phase, maybe it'll pass?'

so he carries on, some times for years, until he finally feels happy with himself, comfortable in his skin, mature enough and ready to be himself. he finally has the confidence to live as he really wants. so, eventually, he comes out (an awful phrase in itself).

so it's not a case or gradually or suddenly turning gay. it's a case of being ready to accept it yourself, and then hoping that others are ready to accept it as well.

Sometimes I think it can even be more complex than that. I think some can think they genuinley are attracted to a girl without realising it's the fact that all their mates are attracted to this one girl which is giving the illusion that they themselves are too.

At least a gay freind of mine at my college claims this. Before coming out he said he did genuinley feel attracted to a girl he was dating. Eventually he realised he wasn't and thought it may be an issue with this particular girl that made him feel in such a way. He moved from girl to girl till eventually to all our suprised he said that he was gay! Being in a cosmopolitan area there was no pressure on him even if he was gay, he just genuinley didn't think he was. Sadly from a load of teenagers he recieved no stigma upon coming out where as his parents suprised even him by deciding to disown him.

Funny old world at times.

 

[Craig_J]

And have you seen how much sex they have as well

Brave of Hitzlsperger to come out. Hopefully we get a few more coming out soon who are actually still playing and we on the terraces prove that we're not the Neanderthals everyone thinks we are...

Thing is the stats about (fortunatley this isn't a football discussion so hopefully people that don't like statistics will forget about that for a second) means that many in the terraces will be gay. Many on here may even be gay. And I bet there's been a few Spurs greats who have been gay!