Ok, thank you. Though in the context of the gay issue we have diffrent understanding of holes and countries).
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O/T: Hitzlsperger: I Am Gay
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
Ok, thank you. Though in the context of the gay issue we have diffrent understanding of holes and countries).
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Much respect to Graeme Le Saux. Robbie Fowler is a ****.
Very interesting and eye-opening read regarding this issue.
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.co...-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Very interesting and eye-opening read regarding this issue.
http://reflectionsasia.wordpress.co...-saux-how-gay-slurs-almost-wrecked-my-career/
Daisuk
Les Medley
Great article. Thanks for posting.
I wonder how it is today, whether football has moved any forward in this regard. Are people allowed to be "different" today?
Mosquito_Coasting
Jonathan Woodgate
Fair play to Le Saux for being as good a player he was under that kind of pressure. Footballers really never grow up, taking the **** out of haircuts etc,etc.
Mosquito_Coasting
Jonathan Woodgate
Great article. Thanks for posting.
I reckon the sheer amount of foreigners playing now has made it easier to be different. Can't imagine that kind of banter at Arsenal now for instance.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Great article. Thanks for posting.
No worries
I was wondering the same as I was reading the article. I think there would be less abuse from the crowd, however when you get 30 odd thousand football fans in a confined space, there will be a few thousand utter macarons, so in that respect I think there would still be chanting and abuse. In the dressing room, perhaps it has moved forward? I'd imagine it is still a boys club, and there are still some dinosaurs within the structure who would discriminate against a player for being homosexual in my opinion.
Reading the part in the article about Graeme receiving loaded comments and 'banter' about wearing rolled up jeans etc. Look at what some players wear now, they look like circus acts!
milo
Jack L. Jones
Thanks for posting. That was a really interesting read.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Kingdawson
Banned
Not every opinion that differs from yours is "fishing for a reaction".
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Obviously not. Seeing as that's not my response to every post that offers an opinion different from mine I have no idea why you feel the need to point that out.
If you look at the response to my post from Stenno you might realize that I'm not the only one who thought the way I did and I think you understand why that is.
Kingdawson
Banned
Stenno? :ross:
You mean the guy that's on my cyber dingdong and jumps on all my posts? to the point that mods had a word with him? you're telling me that his post validates your point...you're funny :ross::ross:
His method of response(s) has(/have) no bearing on the validity of the opinion(s) it(/they) represent.
Kingdawson
Banned
Yes i know they don't when you're concerned.
Let's stick to the topic and not make this personal now..that's what you would prefer, right?
braineclipse
Willie Hall
Dude, I have no time for or interest in your squabbles with other posters. I thought you would understand on your own why I asked the question I did, apparently I was wrong.
--------------------------
Since you seem honest in your question:
If you want to be pedantic it can obviously be argued that people are born asexual as toddlers have no sexual desires or preferences. As sexuality develops it seems abundantly clear that there's a strong genetic/biological component that most likely interacts with the environment any person grows up in.
The original statement you asked about "people are not born gay" is derogatory because of what is typically implied by people making that statement. It might be wrong, at some level, as it seems at the very least likely that there are environmental factors at play. So there's not a strict "born gay, grows up to be gay or born straight, grows up to be straight" dichotomy. So, if you want to be pedantic, you can say that people aren't born gay. However, there's not even a gay/straight dichotomy in the first place, sexuality varies along more of a continuum. Note that this doesn't imply a choice, and it seems likely to me at least that for some people the genetic/biological factors are very strong.
Most gay people will feel that they are "born gay" just as much as you feel "born straight". The statement you asked about has traditionally been uttered along with things like "it's a choice", It's not natural", "it's an illness" or "you can learn to be straight" etc. If you were in a minority as a straight person and there was a history of recent clear discrimination and still lasting discrimination to some degree in the society you lived and people had been using "you're not born straight" along with other terms like the one's I mentioned I think perhaps you would see why "you're not born straight" could be seen as derogatory.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
A very well written article by Le Saux above, a slight insight into the situation he experienced. And he wasn't even gay, imagine that situation for a young man that's struggling to fit in, struggling to discover his own identity and is actually gay.
They don't for anyone, and that's not personal. One can represent a valid point poorly just as easily as representing a bad point well.
Former Scotland captain Barry Ferguson says he is not surprised Thomas Hitzlsperger waited until he had retired to come out as gay because most footballers are like ‘cavemen’.
Writing in his Daily Record column, the midfielder - currently skipper at Blackpool - admitted that he would class himself as a caveman, too, but he does feel that behind the bravado, dressing rooms would be accepting should a gay player be brave enough to come out while still playing.
‘Guys like myself are most probably the problem,’ writes 35-year-old Ferguson. ‘Let’s be honest, football is full of cavemen just like me.’
He added: ‘I can’t say for sure but the more I think about it, that is probably one of the main reasons why guys like Hitzlsperger and Robbie Rogers found it easier to say nothing until their football careers were over while rugby player Gareth Thomas waited until late in his playing career.
‘Maybe in their own heads, gay players think the dressing-room environment might become unbearable if their team-mates knew the truth. And I totally get that. There must be a tremendous fear factor involved.
‘But I also have to say, I think it’s the wrong thing for them to do. In fact, if football has taught me anything – and I’ve learned a lot of big life lessons down the years – then it’s to get things out in the open.
'There is no place quite like a football dressing room when you are in need of a bit of group therapy.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2537189/Cavemen-like-forced-Hitzlsperger-wait-come-gay-admits-Ferguson.html
Writing in his Daily Record column, the midfielder - currently skipper at Blackpool - admitted that he would class himself as a caveman, too, but he does feel that behind the bravado, dressing rooms would be accepting should a gay player be brave enough to come out while still playing.
‘Guys like myself are most probably the problem,’ writes 35-year-old Ferguson. ‘Let’s be honest, football is full of cavemen just like me.’
He added: ‘I can’t say for sure but the more I think about it, that is probably one of the main reasons why guys like Hitzlsperger and Robbie Rogers found it easier to say nothing until their football careers were over while rugby player Gareth Thomas waited until late in his playing career.
‘Maybe in their own heads, gay players think the dressing-room environment might become unbearable if their team-mates knew the truth. And I totally get that. There must be a tremendous fear factor involved.
‘But I also have to say, I think it’s the wrong thing for them to do. In fact, if football has taught me anything – and I’ve learned a lot of big life lessons down the years – then it’s to get things out in the open.
'There is no place quite like a football dressing room when you are in need of a bit of group therapy.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2537189/Cavemen-like-forced-Hitzlsperger-wait-come-gay-admits-Ferguson.html
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
Wow, metrosexual introspection from Barry Ferguson. Now I have seen it all.
Nice piece, and well said Barry.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
Exactly. Le Saux is coming from a standpoint where he was being slandered against and the mental anguish he was put through. Now imagine that one-hundred fold for a gay player. It genuinely makes me sad to think about it.
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
We need more openness like Ferguson here as well as from homosexual players. Great read.