• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Next Spurs Manager v.2

Who do you want?

  • Louis Van Gaal

    Votes: 8 6.6%
  • Mauro Pochettino

    Votes: 9 7.4%
  • Frank de Boer

    Votes: 43 35.5%
  • Roberto Martinez

    Votes: 16 13.2%
  • Carlo Ancelotti

    Votes: 10 8.3%
  • Murat Yakin

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Thomas Tuchel

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • Rafa Benitez

    Votes: 29 24.0%
  • Someone Else

    Votes: 4 3.3%

  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
The only things I've ever argued are predictive - in the loser definition - are a combination of CV, experience and intangibles/x-factor. Are you telling me that's unreasonable? Because I have no idea how else you judge a potential hire otherwise. Throw the 7 or 8 or 10 variables out there, weight them all, and try to come up with the best answer you can.

And yes, I would say x-factor is one of those 7 or 8 or 10 variables that are predictive.

For example, every time a former player takes over as a coach at "his" old club x-factor is a factor, including when Poch took over at Espanyol: his appointment would not have happened had the board not factored in the x-factor between him, the club and the fans. Your argument is that Poch did well at Espanyol - and I don't disagree necessarily - but if that's true it must demonstrate that the x-factor was, after all, predictive.

Not far above this I wrote:

" Sure, there have been many successful managers with that X-factor going into their careers. But I would say that for every one of those there are non-X-factor managers that succeed too. Where was the X-factor you mention with Mourinho, Klopp, Wenger, Ferguson and so on? And similarly you have X-factor managers that fail, I'm sure you'd agree."

Why would one example of one manager at one club demonstrate this?

What I'm talking about is that there should be a trend of "X-factor managers" succeeding more than "non-X-factor managers" if your argument is valid.

Edit: And in this discussion "X-factors" are the kinds of things you mention that makes FdB a #1 target for us. Obviously taking over at his old club isn't one of those factors here.
 
Nothing is predictive of the success of a manager. Neither an immaculate CV at one end of the scale, nor some intangible notion of an x-factor at the other.

You throw it all into the meat grinder and try to judge whether the sausages at the other end will be tasty. When I throw de Boer's meat into my grinder, it turns out nice sausages. Sherwood's meat throws out under-seasoned sausages that could yet turn out to be tasty. Pochetinno's meat turns out nice sausages, but I'm just not in the mood for sausages right now.

There you have it. All laid out, sausages on the table time.
 
If we don't get LVG (which appears about as likely as us getting Guradiola at the moment) then I honestly think we're better of staying with Sherwood.
 
**** probably a bit strong though. Bayern's play the other night was remarkably similar to our play at home under AVB actually.
 
Chancer you said
> If you argue Pochetinno is a better choice as Spurs head coach in Summer 2014 ahead of Sherwood to complete his last 12 months, I will vehemently disagree with you.

You also said Sherwood has a better understanding of the squad and 6 months on Poch or any new manager. But isn't that somewhat short term to think he knows more about the squad now, and therefore is in a better position to take us forward next season. Whilst it might be true that it may take take the new man 6 months or more to learn more about his squad (let's call it another season of transition) we should be looking at this more long term.

If you argue Pochettino is a better coach than Sherwood and the potential rewards are greater long term, then it should surely be a no brainer?

Everything i've seen from Sherwood tells me that he doesn't know the squad, infact he's recently openly admitted he is "no closer to knowing what his first XI is".

He constantly chops and changes and it just smacks of inexperience and indecision.

Yes, i agree our squad is big with a lot of similar players, but you know what the solution to that is? Just find a team that seems to work, give it an extended run, let it bed down and then reassess in the summer.

We smashed Saudi Sportswashing Machine with a formation that looked quite innovative but effective, but we abandoned it because we lost to Norwich the next game. These things happen, its surely worth persevering with a philosophy and formation and XI over a number of games to let it settle?

Rogers got smashed up in his first few games in charge, but he didn't panic and didn't rip up his note book because of a few bad performances or defeats.

That's what we need, a manager with the courage and conviction to see their vision through.

Even AVB didn't do this, we were all told he favoured a 4-3-3 and this particular philosophy, but because he started off with a few dodgy performances he switched to 4-4-2, then 4-2-3-1, then 4-3-1-2, then 4-4-1-1 and all over the place.

I couldn't actually tell you what AVB's preferred formation and XI was in his time at Spurs.

We need a strong coach to come in and impose a philosophy on the club and have the courage to stick with it through the initial rough transition phase.
 
**** probably a bit strong though. Bayern's play the other night was remarkably similar to our play at home under AVB actually.

I said this to my mate, it was the same predictable movement from the Bayern players, Real let them have it until they reached the edge of the their box then closed them down. Bayern didn't move the ball around quick enough to hurt Real.

Spurs did this time and time again when AVB was in charge
 
**** probably a bit strong though. Bayern's play the other night was remarkably similar to our play at home under AVB actually.

Could be argued that Bayern with Pep is very much a work in progress still. It's good tiki taka is being "found out" now as the philosophy will evolve as will other tactics. It's undeniable that under Guardiola, Barca went on to new heights. Unprecedented, winning everything in sight. To simply rubbish what he achieved before and in turn what Spain achieved is over the top. Not saying that you are. Hopefully you're not intimating that Pep is a poor coach.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/football...estion-is-this-the-end-for-tiki-taka-football

Jonathan Wilson said:
The other oddity in the reaction to Bayern's defeat has been the number of attacks on Guardiola and the assertion that tiki-taka is dead. In five seasons as a manager, Guardiola has won four league titles, two domestics cups (and is in another final), two Champions Leagues and three Club World Cups. Even given the dominance of the present era of superclubs, that is a phenomenal record. But the idea that tiki-taka is over, that Barcelona's defeat to Bayern last season and Bayern's defeat to Real Madrid somehow invalidate an entire philosophy, is to misunderstand the whole nature of tactics.

In tactics there are no absolute rights and there aren't many absolute wrongs: there is certainly no magic formula. Tactical theorists aren't like alchemists searching for the quintessence that will explain everything. There is evolution and development in tactical thinking, but everything is contingent on other factors; the same structuralist theory that underpinned Bakema teaches that nothing is not relative. Tiki-taka worked so well at Barcelona in part because of the technical ability of the players, in part because opponents were still adjusting to changes in the offside law and in part because of the intensity of their play. You can get away with a high line and passers rather than defenders in the back line only if there is ferocious pressure on the ball.

One of the reasons for Barcelona's slide from the very peak is that they have lost that intensity: stats from Whoscored.com show that Lionel Messi, for instance, has gone from retrieving possession through tackles or interceptions 2.1 times per league game in 2010-11 to 0.6 this season. Bayern were noticeably lacking in zip and zest in both legs against Real Madrid, perhaps because after such a glut of success over the past two seasons their hunger has been dulled, perhaps because they have won the league so easily this season that a certain edge has been lost and perhaps because Guardiola made tactical errors.

There are those who have argued that Bayern destroyed tiki-taka in the semi-final last season and that it was therefore an enormous error to try to implement it at Bayern this season. That, though, is to ignore the fact that Bayern last season were a highly proactive, possession-oriented side in pretty much every game other than those against Barcelona: domestically, only Barcelona had more possession in the top five leagues in Europe last season; only Barcelona had more possession in the Champions League group stages last season. In those semi-finals, Jupp Heynckes recognised that Barcelona were better at retaining possession and so set his side up to play reactively, with great success.

None of that means tiki-taka is finished as a system. None of that means teams will not continue to try to control games through possession. What does seem to be the case, though, is that the examples of Inter in 2010 and Chelsea, against both Barça and Bayern in 2012, has radicalised the approach of reactive teams when encountering tiki-taka, and that will probably prevent it ever again enjoying the pre-eminence it enjoyed at Barcelona between 2009 and 2011 – just as Total Football, or at least the version with an aggressively high defensive line, never quite dominated the club game again after the break-up of Ajax after the 1973 European Cup final. It was a specific way of playing for a specific set of players in a specific set of circumstances at a specific time. Its influence was profound, as that of Guardiola's Barcelona was and assuredly will continue to be. Whether that style will ever dominate in the same way again is another issue. Once the evolutionary wheel has turned, it rarely goes back.
 
Could be argued that Bayern with Pep is very much a work in progress still. It's good tiki taka is being "found out" now as the philosophy will evolve as will other tactics. It's undeniable that under Guardiola, Barca went on to new heights. Unprecedented, winning everything in sight. To simply rubbish what he achieved before and in turn what Spain achieved is over the top. Not saying that you are. Hopefully you're not intimating that Pep is a poor coach.

There is an article linked to in the Jose Mourinho overrated? thread in general football and a developing discussion around it about the proposed death of tiki taka. The article was a very good read I thought and the discussion could also be good.

Edit: Yeah, that's the one :)
 
Could be argued that Bayern with Pep is very much a work in progress still. It's good tiki taka is being "found out" now as the philosophy will evolve as will other tactics. It's undeniable that under Guardiola, Barca went on to new heights. Unprecedented, winning everything in sight. To simply rubbish what he achieved before and in turn what Spain achieved is over the top. Not saying that you are. Hopefully you're not intimating that Pep is a poor coach.

I guess the question is whether those tactics can work without having the World's best dribbler in your team? Messi can unlock even the most stubborn, packed, well organised defence camped on the edge of their own penalty area. The problem is that there aren't too many Messi's out there.
 
Could be argued that Bayern with Pep is very much a work in progress still. It's good tiki taka is being "found out" now as the philosophy will evolve as will other tactics. It's undeniable that under Guardiola, Barca went on to new heights. Unprecedented, winning everything in sight. To simply rubbish what he achieved before and in turn what Spain achieved is over the top. Not saying that you are. Hopefully you're not intimating that Pep is a poor coach.

Not a poor coach but I think he's overrated, stubborn and one dimensional. Sure he deserves some credit for what he did at Barca but I'd attribute more of that credit to the players(one Lionel Messi in particular). Think it was just a case of being there at the right time for Pep and there was no need for this Bayern to be a "work in progress", any manager without such an ego would've just carried on Jupp Heynckes' work rather than trying to impress their own way of playing on the squad. When you've seen Bayern destroy Barca the year before, it seems quite strange to me that you'd then try and get Bayern to play like Barca.
 
Back