Next England Manager Thread

[Raziel]

Ok, if you were in charge who would YOU appoint (irrespective of nationality)?

Honestly, I might try to tempt SAF out for a cameo run for next World Cup (which would be ironic as he's at least British).

My point is Fat Sam, Pardew, Southgate, etc would not be near the list if we didn't set this completely false requirement.

England needs to do two main things

- Appoint the best manager you could get, SAF, Diego Simeone, Wenger (hurts Scum, he actually has a style, likes young players), go for someone who is proven, has success
- The FA needs to be held more responsible (brick result should not just mean fire the manager) to take greater responsibility for improving quality of young players, number of player being brought into system and quality of coaching see this quote on Iceland's work ->

Iceland with a population of 335,000 has around 600 qualified coaches, 400 with Uefa B licences, or one per 825 people. To put this into context, in England this number falls to one per 11,000.
The result is a spread of expertise right down to the lowest level. “Here you need a Uefa B licence to coach from under-10 level up and half of the Uefa B licence to coach under-eights,” Dagur Sveinn Dagbjartsson of the Icelandic FA says. This isn’t simply box-ticking. The Uefa B is one step off the level needed to coach a professional team in England. Yelling dads it ain’t.
Article link here https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback

Fact is, the next manager probably won't make a difference because the FA takes no responsibility (and English people are still suspicious of those foreign ways) and England's only hope for success in next 2 decades is clubs like Spurs, Southampton, West Ham, etc. Academies doing the work the FA should be doing.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Honestly, I might try to tempt SAF out for a cameo run for next World Cup (which would be ironic as he's at least British).

My point is Fat Sam, Pardew, Southgate, etc would not be near the list if we didn't set this completely false requirement.

England needs to do two main things

- Appoint the best manager you could get, SAF, Diego Simeone, Wenger (hurts Scum, he actually has a style, likes young players), go for someone who is proven, has success
- The FA needs to be held more responsible (brick result should not just mean fire the manager) to take greater responsibility for improving quality of young players, number of player being brought into system and quality of coaching see this quote on Iceland's work ->

Iceland with a population of 335,000 has around 600 qualified coaches, 400 with Uefa B licences, or one per 825 people. To put this into context, in England this number falls to one per 11,000.
The result is a spread of expertise right down to the lowest level. “Here you need a Uefa B licence to coach from under-10 level up and half of the Uefa B licence to coach under-eights,” Dagur Sveinn Dagbjartsson of the Icelandic FA says. This isn’t simply box-ticking. The Uefa B is one step off the level needed to coach a professional team in England. Yelling dads it ain’t.
Article link here https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback

Fact is, the next manager probably won't make a difference because the FA takes no responsibility (and English people are still suspicious of those foreign ways) and England's only hope for success in next 2 decades is clubs like Spurs, Southampton, West Ham, etc. Academies doing the work the FA should be doing.

Those are all fair points, esp the coaching in Iceland. However, would this be even looked at if Hodgson wasn't such a mediocre "underdog manager"? If England had won vs Iceland and got to the quarter final all this wouldn't be spoken of.
I'm all for grassroots training for the long-term but part of that has to be a sound coach who has that long-term in mind AS WELL as the ability to get results NOW; by results i mean at least quarter-finals (which is about par for England).

There are also bigger issues (like media pressure, the money involved in the English game and the kind of money that youngsters can earn in comparison to their peers overseas) which are beyond the manager.
Also, of those who you named to take over as coach:
SAF/Wenger - yesterday's men ho have been shown to have been on a downward trend like the more decorated Capello. Also remember they had the luxuries of being able to build their teams via big spending, a luxury you don't get at International level (though Wenger is possibly better equipped in that regard, but only just imo).
Simeone - really? The arch-enemy of English football from back in the day? I actually think Poch (heaven forbid!) would be better. Much better.
Portugal have just won the Euros after years of building a solid base, but with Ronaldo. Since their stints with Scolari they have had only Portuguese coaches i believe and look at them now. It's not impossible that England can progress with an English coach who looks 'mediocre' to us right now..remember the 'proven manger whose had success' didn't work previously

 

[Raziel]

Those are all fair points, esp the coaching in Iceland. However, would this be even looked at if Hodgson wasn't such a mediocre "underdog manager"? If England had won vs Iceland and got to the quarter final all this wouldn't be spoken of. I'm all for grassroots training for the long-term but part of that has to be a sound coach who has that long-term in mind AS WELL as the ability to get results NOW; by results i mean at least quarter-finals (which is about par for England).

There are also bigger issues (like media pressure, the money involved in the English game and the kind of money that youngsters can earn in comparison to their peers overseas) which are beyond the manager.Also, of those who you named to take over as coach:
SAF/Wenger - yesterday's men ho have been shown to have been on a downward trend like the more decorated Capello. Also remember they had the luxuries of being able to build their teams via big spending, a luxury you don't get at International level (though Wenger is possibly better equipped in that regard, but only just imo).
Simeone - really? The arch-enemy of English football from back in the day? I actually think Poch (heaven forbid!) would be better. Much better.
Portugal have just won the Euros after years of building a solid base, but with Ronaldo. Since their stints with Scolari they have had only Portuguese coaches i believe and look at them now. It's not impossible that England can progress with an English coach who looks 'mediocre' to us right now..remember the 'proven manger whose had success' didn't work previously

Not disagreeing with you in the larger picture
- In my opinion Hodgson should have never gotten the job, and yes had he won against Iceland we wouldn't be having the conversation (hence my point that the FA needs greater responsibility for the game beyond hire/fire manager)
- Get the concern re SAF/Wenger, but both have interesting upsides (SAF has been the most flexible coach the game has seen, Wenger has a system, likes younger players), hate Simeone all you want, he has shown he can get a side to fight giants over and over again, and is still on the up.
- Portugal is a tough comparison, they have underachieved almost as much as England in last 2 decades despite quality players. This side is probably least talented (or at least most of the talent is on their downside) and they got to tournament and got results 90% on the back of being horribly pragmatic (a Simeone type plan) and have an all time great player (with a real passion for playing for his country) in the side.

I don't disagree an English coach might work, but my reality would be - who is the best coach we can get? nationality is a bonus, not a requirement.

 

[parklane1]

Who the manager is is only one aspect of a larger problem with an underperforming English team, and not the biggest issue IMO. It boils down to the players and their ability compared to other similar sized nations and that is where England fall down. You need to start at the bottom and work up IMO. It has been said a thousand times but that is what is necessary.

Bingo.

As for the bit in bold you are right it has been raised a thousand times and it will keep being so until we start at the bottom, of course it probably will never happen as long as fans overate English players and i include our players in there as well.

Fans and the media turn on managers and say the players are not at fault, the truth is (as i have said before) i have been lucky enough ( with my job) to have been to training camps in several of the European countries and without a doubt most of them are way ahead with youth players education and work that is done with them.

We have progressed but not quickly enough and still have a lot of catch up to do, and now i hear some fans saying the likes of Fat Sam should be given the job, talk about going back to the dark ages. As you say its been talked about for years but sacking managers every time we fail in a tournament is just putting sticky plasters on a open wound, the fact is our players are not good enough but unfortuately the hype put on them by fans Sky/media will continue to be heaped on their shoulders and we will keep failing.

 

[glorygloryeze]

@parklane1 out of interest, does the job of English manaher have to go to an Englishman in your opinion?
Also who would you appoint as mannger of the English team if it was down to you?

 

[parklane1]

@parklane1 out of interest, does the job of English manaher have to go to an Englishman in your opinion?
Also who would you appoint as mannger of the English team if it was down to you?

To be honest i would prefer a English man but its not written in stone for me. If its to be done right it will need someone who will be inclined to work from the bottom through to the top and i just believe a English set up would be better long term.

As for who i would pick for now it would be Hoddle, i know some will say he has not managed for a while but he has been involved with coaching young kids and he has his own academy which ( from what i have been led to believe is very good). I think if we gave him the job he has the vision to look at what our young players are taught and we need to start from there.

As i have said before though there is no quick fix and the FA and the fans have to accept that we are going nowhere ( and have not for a very long while), but as i say i have been involved with football all my life and its been talked about many times but alas it has never happened.

 

[billyiddo]

I think in England there is too much emphasis placed on who the national manager is, we seem to be of the opinion that we need a tactical mastermind to get us competing - we don't, others get by without - why are we any different? what we need is a manager that can put together a balanced team with players that compliment one another and to get them motivated - that's it, there's not enough time on international duty to do much more than that and those basics are what we haven't been doing for a long time.

you won't go far wrong if you get the basics right and it's something we have been getting wrong for the last 15 years or so

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not disagreeing with you in the larger picture
- In my opinion Hodgson should have never gotten the job, and yes had he won against Iceland we wouldn't be having the conversation (hence my point that the FA needs greater responsibility for the game beyond hire/fire manager)
- Get the concern re SAF/Wenger, but both have interesting upsides (SAF has been the most flexible coach the game has seen, Wenger has a system, likes younger players), hate Simeone all you want, he has shown he can get a side to fight giants over and over again, and is still on the up.
- Portugal is a tough comparison, they have underachieved almost as much as England in last 2 decades despite quality players. This side is probably least talented (or at least most of the talent is on their downside) and they got to tournament and got results 90% on the back of being horribly pragmatic (a Simeone type plan) and have an all time great player (with a real passion for playing for his country) in the side.

I don't disagree an English coach might work, but my reality would be - who is the best coach we can get? nationality is a bonus, not a requirement.

Fair points; will be interesting to see who does get appointed. If we were going to disregard the big gap in unemployment (and the horrendous ways his last 2/3 appointments ended) Hoddle would be a shoo-in.
Despite going out in round 16 in 1998, that was possibly the best tactically i have seen England play given the playing staff (though Venables gets a good mention here, though he was not tested properly away from England's shores in the end).

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think in England there is too much emphasis placed on who the national manager is, we seem to be of the opinion that we need a tactical mastermind to get us competing - we don't, others get by without - why are we any different? what we need is a manager that can put together a balanced team with players that compliment one another and to get them motivated - that's it, there's not enough time on international duty to do much more than that and those basics are what we haven't been doing for a long time.

you won't go far wrong if you get the basics right and it's something we have been getting wrong for the last 15 years or so

Good points. Btw, who would you hire right now?

 

[billyiddo]

Good points. Btw, who would you hire right now?

im tempted to say Redknapp, i think he would suit the England job as good as anyone and has shown throughout his career that he can do the things i mention in my previous post well. He doesn't complicate things, he motivates his players and he knows how to shape a balanced side. im well aware he has his faults (ive written about them plenty of times before) however i don't think they relate much to international football and so would not be a worry for me.

my only issues with him would be that i think he has maybe been out of the game a bit too long and that he's a total clam, but hey ho


Im also not against Alladyce, pretty much for the same reasons as above - the big question mark there would be style of play, but im of the opinion that with better players available to him he'd find it hard to revert to the stereotypical route one game he is known for

 

[Rorschach]

To be honest i would prefer a English man but its not written in stone for me. If its to be done right it will need someone who will be inclined to work from the bottom through to the top and i just believe a English set up would be better long term.

As for who i would pick for now it would be Hoddle, i know some will say he has not managed for a while but he has been involved with coaching young kids and he has his own academy which ( from what i have been led to believe is very good). I think if we gave him the job he has the vision to look at what our young players are taught and we need to start from there.

As i have said before though there is no quick fix and the FA and the fans have to accept that we are going nowhere ( and have not for a very long while), but as i say i have been involved with football all my life and its been talked about many times but alas it has never happened.

Hoddle would be my choice too but the optics of reappointing him would be too much for some to stomach. Maybe an idea would be to have Hoddle oversee a root and branch change to the fundamental nature of the game in England and have a stalking horse England manager to take the flak for the perpetually underperforming senior English team.

As you say it will take years to turn around a country of coaches all focused on the wrong thing IMO, and that thing is winning at all costs. Winning seems to trump everything else on every pitch up and down the country at every level. When the goal of youth football is medals then something gets sacrificed and usually that is technique and footballing intelligence. Changing the footballing ethos of a nation is such a big job that that whoever is in charge should maybe just concentrate on the youngest levels and it will eventually percolate up through all age groups over time.

 

[parklane1]

im tempted to say Redknapp, i think he would suit the England job as good as anyone and has shown throughout his career that he can do the things i mention in my previous post well.

The only way that will happen is if the FA back down on their decision not to even give " rent a quote" a interview the last time. They made that decision then because they did not want the same farce that they got last time a messiah got talked into the job by the media, the one and only Kevin Keegan.

Now they may have backtracked on that but from what i have been led to believe it will not happen. But we will see.

 

[parklane1]

Hoddle would be my choice too but the optics of reappointing him would be too much for some to stomach. Maybe an idea would be to have Hoddle oversee root and branch change to the fundamental nature of game in England and have a stalking horse England manager to take the flak for the perpetually underperforming senior English team.

As you say it will take years to turn around a country of coaches all focused on the wrong thing IMO, and that thing is winning at all costs. Winning seems to trump everything else on every pitch up and down the country at every level. When the goal of youth football is medals then something gets sacrificed and usually that is technique and footballing intelligence. Changing the footballing ethos of a nation is such a big job that that whoever is in charge should maybe just concentrate on the youngest levels and it will eventually percolate up through all age groups over time.

Putting Hoddle in charge of the revamping of the system would work ( imo) but he would have to have a say who gets the job running the England team, the reason i say that is the new manager would have to have the same vision as Hoddle otherwise it will not work.

The point you make about medals is spot on and one of the things that i have never agreed with is that they do not want losers in todays society. By that i mean there is this feeling that kids should be rewarded in everything they do in schools sports and even the classroom, never mind actually being driven to be a winner when you can be praised for taking part.

I know i am a old fart but when i took part in school sport ( both football and cricket) you only got a medal by being a winner not a good loser, the first time i lost a final i was determined to work harder to be a winner, alas that has been taken out of competing as even losers walk away feeling the have done well.

 

[johnola]

If that meant we were putting a plan in place to develop a team strategy and not throwing it out after a few setbacks I'd be fine with that. We can't go on stumbling along the way we have been.

I completely agree with this kdddds.

And yet The main reason I am uninterested is where they are being held and how they came to be held there.

 

[Cochise]

Eddie Howe has been mentionned. He's young but he's a good coach and I'd happily see him take up the reigns.

Allardyce would be horrendous.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I was rather hoping Eddie Howe would be our next coach, I do love Poch but this is Tottenham and we do not hold onto our coaches.

 

[StephenH]

Wouldn't be kind to give Eddie Howe the job yet, the media would eat him alive......he hopefully has a long career ahead of him!
Hoddle would end up giving them all skills training and showing them how to strike ball, not sure that would be needed.

Sam would tell the media to foxtrot oscar! (off camera of cause)
We don't need a good manager we need a good motivator and an organiser.
Harry would have been good ten years ago and if he could keep his trap shut.

 

[Craig_J]

I was rather hoping Eddie Howe would be our next coach, I do love Poch but this is Tottenham and we do not hold onto our coaches.

Neither do England so every chance he'd be available in a couple of years anyway.

 

[thfcsteff]

@thfcsteff you raise some good and fair points re Allardyce.
But given who is available and that fact that, imo, it should be an Englishman who would you have take the job instead?

Mate...I said it. Here it is again!

<<Look, if that satisfies some people, great. I think it's a horrifically retrograde step, and would much much rather the FA tried to be progressive and line up a Howe or a Hughton alongside a great coaching staff. >>

IF not a progressive, young policy, then Hiddink in short-term but with Hughton hired for U-21s unless Southgte is GENUINELY interested in taking the top job one day, in which case keep him there and have him learn from Hiddink.

 

[thfcsteff]

Ancelotti would also have been good...we have to move forwards. BFS is retrograde.