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Morgan Gibbs-White

Muttley said:
I liked the fact that you couldn't pin Dele down in this way. He was bought up with bigger boys playing football on a concrete basketball court. He learnt his trade differently than all those academy kids. He was called a false number 9 and a 10 as you say. He'd seamlessly interchange with Eriksen in that 4-2-3-1. I never knew which one was central and who was right. I also remember that Dortmund game when he played 6. He run the game. For me, not being able to put him a box made him what he was.
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I still think the way Southgate used him at the 2018 World Cup (in order to have an extra attacking instinct player i.e. Lindgard on the pitch) contributed to his eventual dissatisfaction with life and football. He played a deeper role, and played it very well, yet was maligned by many because they could not see that he was being deployed differently...not entirely dissimilar to when Defoe was played differently from his 'predator instinct' role in order to make him a 'better player', not saying he didn't continue to be a fine player, just that the natural instinct and joy was blunted slightly IMO...

To keep this MGW related, I don't quite see the Dele comparisons personally. There again, I think Dele was one of the most unique talents I have ever seen. In many ways he was like a time-traveled Brazillian from that gorgeous 1982 side, with the attacking instincts of Zico and the physical smoothness and stride of Socrates...
 
thfcsteff said:
I still think the way Southgate used him at the 2018 World Cup (in order to have an extra attacking instinct player i.e. Lindgard on the pitch) contributed to his eventual dissatisfaction with life and football. He played a deeper role, and played it very well, yet was maligned by many because they could not see that he was being deployed differently...not entirely dissimilar to when Defoe was played differently from his 'predator instinct' role in order to make him a 'better player', not saying he didn't continue to be a fine player, just that the natural instinct and joy was blunted slightly IMO...

To keep this MGW related, I don't quite see the Dele comparisons personally. There again, I think Dele was one of the most unique talents I have ever seen. In many ways he was like a time-traveled Brazillian from that gorgeous 1982 side, with the attacking instincts of Zico and the physical smoothness and stride of Socrates...
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That's on the player. Sheringham changed his game because he wanted to play for england with shearer. Became one of the best 10s in the game.
 
thfcsteff said:
I still think the way Southgate used him at the 2018 World Cup (in order to have an extra attacking instinct player i.e. Lindgard on the pitch) contributed to his eventual dissatisfaction with life and football. He played a deeper role, and played it very well, yet was maligned by many because they could not see that he was being deployed differently...not entirely dissimilar to when Defoe was played differently from his 'predator instinct' role in order to make him a 'better player', not saying he didn't continue to be a fine player, just that the natural instinct and joy was blunted slightly IMO...

To keep this MGW related, I don't quite see the Dele comparisons personally. There again, I think Dele was one of the most unique talents I have ever seen. In many ways he was like a time-traveled Brazillian from that gorgeous 1982 side, with the attacking instincts of Zico and the physical smoothness and stride of Socrates...
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Yep, not sure I've ever really recovered from my Moscow trip and that Croatia match. Slabhead pulling in Young to mark his man and becoming the second free man in our 5 man defence. Walker was the only one of the 3 centre halves marking anyone. The impact that had on Dele, Hendo and Lingard was catastrophic as we got deeper and deeper. Poor old Dele just became the second wing-back trying to deal with the overload. Modric clocked it. Southgate didn't. Modric just moved his team about himself and they had total ascendency. He didn't need a manager to tell him. Hendo, the real England captain, looked to his boss for help. None came. I've rarely seen such a display of poor international management in my life.

I actually do see the MGW comparison, but only in one aspect. That is football intelligence. Both Dele and MGW have the smarts to see how the game is playing out and make it work. If that required Dele to dig in with the midfield pair, he would. If that meant Dele spending more time left or right to find the space, he would. If that meant Dele playing ahead of Kane and becoming the 9, then he would. Dele could play all these roles in the same 90 mins. His problem was doing the number 10 flicks and tricks in his own third. He would have grown out of that though. When I've seen MGW live, I've been so impressed that he does what it takes to win football matches. He has those same chameleon qualities that Dele had, but doesn't have the top end elite ability.

I think we will concede 5-10 goals less just by having MGW at the club. It's guys like him that make manager's systems work in my opinion.
 
Lilbaz said:
That's on the player. Sheringham changed his game because he wanted to play for england with shearer. Became one of the best 10s in the game.
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Nah, Venables knew how to make a system with Gazza, Ince, Anderton, MacManamann, Sheringham and Shearer work. It's what elite managers do. They find the players strengths and weaknesses and work with them.

Southgate was bad for so many of our talented England players. I watched it unfold with my own eyes. Clueless.
 
Muttley said:
Nah, Venables knew how to make a system with Gazza, Ince, Anderton, MacManamann, Sheringham and Shearer work. It's what elite managers do. They find the players strengths and weaknesses and work with them.

Southgate was bad for so many of our talented England players. I watched it unfold with my own eyes. Clueless.
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Sheringham said it in an interview. Venebles might have suggested it but teddy embraced it.
 
 
Muttley said:
Was just noting how often fans use the line about Levy being the ECA member in their arguments. I have no clue why. It's a poison chalice role with no outcomes in my opinion. Ed Woodward was lambasted for his role at Utd. He was the one that Levy took over from. What did he achieve at the ECA?

I probably sound like a broken record but until the decision rights in football are put back into their rightful places then we'll just see the chaos continue. I'd love to think that Levy could represent his peers in the PL and have an influence at the EU and WW level. I just think he's wasting his precious time trying to in this climate.
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He might be wasting his time, but to be voted in he had to have the support of a lot of other chairmen. Again that's contrary to your view that we get screwed over because Levy is some kind of pariah. I don't get what's hard to understand about that and why you need to go off on tangents unrelated to the point.
 
Lilbaz said:
Teddy Sheringham said he had to ‘fit around’ Alan Shearer when they forged their successful partnership at Euro 96 — and 20 years later he believes Wayne Rooney can do the same alongside Harry Kane.
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When you think about it more, there are 4 fantastic players there but only one has inflexibility and that is Shearer. The other 3 can play both roles.

Therefore Teddy had no choice but to accommodate Shearer.
 
Muttley said:
When you think about it more, there are 4 fantastic players there but only one has inflexibility and that is Shearer. The other 3 can play both roles.

Therefore Teddy had no choice but to accommodate Shearer.
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Yes. Which is why he said he adapted his game. He had gotten the golden boot with us as an out and out striker.
As i said, it's up to the player. Adapt their game to play for england or don't play. Don't be miserable about it. Playing for england should be the ultimate dream. You do what you have to and throw yourself 100% at it to make it work.
 
DubSpur said:
He might be wasting his time, but to be voted in he had to have the support of a lot of other chairmen. Again that's contrary to your view that we get screwed over because Levy is some kind of pariah. I don't get what's hard to understand about that and why you need to go off on tangents unrelated to the point.
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My original point was about decision rights and governance actually. I didn't introduce the Levy and ECA angle.

When I look above I finally see The FA and not just the PL mentioned in who is arbitrating the NFFC, THFC, MGW scenario. In my mind, the PL should just be admin whilst the FA should be about governance. There should never be a need for either UEFA or FIFA to engage with the PL. They should work through our FA as the single conduit.

My original point is that football clubs can use the grey space in decision rights and governance to their advantage. We need black and white governance in football and single accountability. It is not there.
 
Muttley said:
My original point was about decision rights and governance actually. I didn't introduce the Levy and ECA angle.

When I look above I finally see The FA and not just the PL mentioned in who is arbitrating the NFFC, THFC, MGW scenario. In my mind, the PL should just be admin whilst the FA should be about governance. There should never be a need for either UEFA or FIFA to engage with the PL. They should work through our FA as the single conduit.

My original point is that football clubs can use the grey space in decision rights and governance to their advantage. We need black and white governance in football and single accountability. It is not there.
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The pl broke away and is run by it's members the 20 clubs. They decide how the league is run. With scudamor (or whoever) doing the day to day running.
Fifa, uefa, fa decide what the rules of the game are.

The prem is a democracy. Do you really want to change it to a dictatorship?
 
Muttley said:
My original point was about decision rights and governance actually. I didn't introduce the Levy and ECA angle.

When I look above I finally see The FA and not just the PL mentioned in who is arbitrating the NFFC, THFC, MGW scenario. In my mind, the PL should just be admin whilst the FA should be about governance. There should never be a need for either UEFA or FIFA to engage with the PL. They should work through our FA as the single conduit.

My original point is that football clubs can use the grey space in decision rights and governance to their advantage. We need black and white governance in football and single accountability. It is not there.
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No, your original point was that we get into these situations because of Levy:

Muttley said:
It does occur to me though that our club is more likely to get into these types of scrapes because of how we've behaved in the past. You get the feeling that Levy and co have constantly moved the goalposts in deals over the years and reneged on commitments made around the negotiation table. Is there perhaps a little bit of what goes around comes around here perhaps? Would it have happened the same way to another club who made the same moves as us over MGW?

I know Hugo said some telling things in his book about Levy. From memory so did Modric. They tone it down for their books as well.
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After that you went off on your tangent about whether the ECA was of any use.
 
DubSpur said:
No, your original point was that we get into these situations because of Levy:



After that you went off on your tangent about whether the ECA was of any use.
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My opinion remains that football transactions between clubs are bigger than any single league entity in the world. We need consistency and standardisation, not single league level governance on such matters. If there are global versus continent vs country differences allowed then that should be the role of the FA as our conduit to other FAs and UEFA/FIFA. We have an EFL and an entire non-league structure in this same pyramid. I genuinely believe that my own club's behaviour's over time hasn't helped. That doesn't make us unique, but it could be a reason for what we're seeing with MGW.

I'll leave it there.
 
Bullet said:
A bukkakal ejaculation of ITK blurblings from ChefSarrpreme. Don't shoot the messenger etc.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947743093090095346

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947731479930540106

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947734307923234979

https://twitter.com/x/status/1947739723293946165
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I know it’s all nonsense but that first one is just such special nonsense. ‘They qualified through Europa so the trigger is void’…..why even bother writing out such completely ridiculous rubbish?
 
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