Michael Dawson

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

Can we settle for the fact that Dawson's technique/ability has always been pretty good in a passing sense but that his decision making has vastly improved this season?

well thats a decent compromise but then isnt that down to the manager in question?

Jol favoured direct route to mido and how ever lots of times...and when crouch played so did redknapp. if their instructions was to always put the ball on the deck why would someone of strong mind and character so flagrantly disobey the instructions

maybe AVB in conjunction with the players we have and the style we have play now has been brought more of a mandate to keep the ball on the floor?

and then there is the fact that when harry was here and crouch didnt start....dawson could play the ball on the floor anyway...and his cross field balls tended to find the wingers. not Thudd level but enough for you to appreciate he has this in his locker

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

You haven't read what I've written properly and have missed any point I've made. Again, this was all about whether he could fit into the style and system AVB wanted to play. He has proven a point and then some. He is, incidentally, also a lovely guy.

actually i would say that its you thats missing the avenue you opened that i am against

i am not actually debating that point you just highlighted

Dawson THEN wasnt the player he was now. I do not agree
Dawson passing has improved under AVB. i dont agree either. but i will say that i canT know how his decision making under AVB has been affected. maybe he is more calm , patient , trustworthy in himself and his team mates.....maybe. but the idea that his passing has improved from a technical / execution stand point i dont agree with.

i do agree with the issue about him being able to fit in the style and system. i would have had my reservations about that as well....as aside from gallas and king, i didnt have faith any of the rest could play that system either.

i wouldnt have condoned selling him before i found out though, again because i remember the man and the player...from a BOX tv point of view. top defender..dont sell...dont forget. people too often do this and use small segments of a large picture to make final decisions. i cant understand that

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Dawson

Steff is clearly right here, Dawson has improved, otherwise he wouldn't be in the team.

I think AVB is being gracious and humble in saying that he made a mistake with Dawson, but really what we knew about Dawson as a player (and how much of a fool Terry was made to look last year) suggested to me it wouldn't be the worst thing to let Dawson go and make a good bit of money on him. I completely thought that while Dawson was good, the other 4 centre backs we had were far better suited to playing the high line. Therefore it's a mistake with hindsight, but at the time, I think Steff is right in saying noone could have foreseen Dawson's improvement. Not just in terms of passing, but positioning, decision making and general ability to play with a high line and everything else that entails. It's even harder for him, because he doesn't have pace, so these mental aspects have had to get so good to such an extent that he has forced himself back into the team, and hats off to him for that.

Because of how he's taken on the challenge of getting back into the team and improving himself, he is now one of my favourite players. It's absolutely fantastic to see. But let's not pretend people thought he was the ideal high line defender when AVB first arrived.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

Steff is clearly right here, Dawson has improved, otherwise he wouldn't be in the team.

I think AVB is being gracious and humble in saying that he made a mistake with Dawson, but really what we knew about Dawson as a player (and how much of a fool Terry was made to look last year) suggested to me it wouldn't be the worst thing to let Dawson go and make a good bit of money on him. I completely thought that while Dawson was good, the other 4 centre backs we had were far better suited to playing the high line. Therefore it's a mistake with hindsight, but at the time, I think Steff is right in saying noone could have foreseen Dawson's improvement. Not just in terms of passing, but positioning, decision making and general ability to play with a high line and everything else that entails. It's even harder for him, because he doesn't have pace, so these mental aspects have had to get so good to such an extent that he has forced himself back into the team, and hats off to him for that.

Because of how he's taken on the challenge of getting back into the team and improving himself, he is now one of my favourite players. It's absolutely fantastic to see. But let's not pretend people thought he was the ideal high line defender when AVB first arrived.

that's is a crazy comment. i can confidently say that is not the only criteria that dictates who starts for a team.

again this is actually IMO more to do with people not appreciating Dawson for what he always has been. dawson right now is the same player in a tweaked system, thats it. the only thing that was uncertain is how he would fair in this system

but looking back on it, why wouldnt he do well? he reads the game as good as anyone on our team and thats where the high line has its magic

further more the high line isnt even primarily down to the defenderrs...its pressuring the opposition into mistakes...the highline we have now works cause of the pressing of sandro and dembele and defoe...if we dont press well...THEN dawson AND verts AND gallas and whoever...are all in for a tough time

Dawson is allowed to read the game better because that luxury is afforded to him by his team mates

pace is only valuable for a high line as a get out clause...you actually dont want people playing balls behind you in the first place...but pace is there for you to deal with that eventuality. i raise my hands for having such a narrow minded amateurish thought process towards the highline. football has progressed well beyond this and i knew that anyway...but alas dawson with his lack of pace and slower lateral movement didnt fill me with confidence on that.

can you prove his passing is better? can you prove that his positioning is better? his reading?

i'll tell you this its easier to show that he was always good at these.....the man was a living magnet for the ball under ALL managers he played under.....he bailed out defenders and they him etc....yet somehow people only ever seem to appreciate players when the going is good. its actually infuriating a bit...and very short sighted

improved himself? no. shut people up and given people a reminder is what he has done.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

Steff is clearly right here, Dawson has improved, otherwise he wouldn't be in the team.

uurgh, that comment is grating. LOL

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

its a wonder how puyol and pique managed to play for barca for so long.

shouldnt they have had sprinters in by now?

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: Dawson

i can confidently say that is not the only criteria that dictates who starts for a team.

Under Arry may be, but not AVB

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Dawson

I wonder what will happen if Kaboul displaces Dawson at some point..

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

I wonder what will happen if Kaboul displaces Dawson at some point..

why dawson? and not verts or walker?

and if kaboul displaces him and plays well....who cares? its a TEAM game right?

i'll tell you this, i'm more worried about kabouls reading than i am of dawsons

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Dawson

its a wonder how puyol and pique managed to play for barca for so long.

shouldnt they have had sprinters in by now?

I'm not saying Dawson was never very good. In 05/06 he was excellent and many times under Harry he was great, but I struggle to understand how people can confidently say before the season started that he was better suited to playing the AVB system than the other 4 we had. The fact that he ultimately proved he was capable was excellent, but lets not forget AVB saw Dawson for the summer before making that decision, and saw him every day in training for months before letting him back in. AVB wouldn't have made the decision based solely on 'Dawson = Terry' and not given Dawson a chance, he did actually see him in action first. And he decided the other 4 were better suited to how he wanted to play. I don't think it's that much of a ridiculous conclusion to come to, intact I think it's quite logical.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

Under Arry may be, but not AVB

there is clearly much more indicators to a meritocracy under AVB than harry, who had a starting 11 that worked and didnt budge from it unless tactically forced to or if injury pushed him to it.

but there is no way you say that because someone is in the first team then it must be because he has improved. it could be a thing that someone is playing well so they dont get dropped then someone else gets a chance,.....plays well and then they dont get dropped.

why isnt it as simple as that?

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

I'm not saying Dawson was never very good. In 05/06 he was excellent and many times under Harry he was great, but I struggle to understand how people can confidently say before the season started that he was better suited to playing the AVB system than the other 4 we had. The fact that he ultimately proved he was capable was excellent, but lets not forget AVB saw Dawson for the summer before making that decision, and saw him every day in training for months before letting him back in. AVB wouldn't have made the decision based solely on 'Dawson = Terry' and not given Dawson a chance, he did actually see him in action first. And he decided the other 4 were better suited to how he wanted to play. I don't think it's that much of a ridiculous conclusion to come to, intact I think it's quite logical.

well when you put it like that i guess i see your point

but AVB was wrong. as in FLAT OUT wrong. he has much more or less admitted this. so instead of dawson improving...maybe AVB made a mistake.

and if AVB condemned him before giving him a chance then i am not impressed...not that he needs to impress me...the guy is taking tottenham places and i am here at work writing about it LOL.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Dawson

why dawson? and not verts or walker?

and if kaboul displaces him and plays well....who cares? its a TEAM game right?

i'll tell you this, i'm more worried about kabouls reading than i am of dawsons

I think Kaboul improved a lot when he went to Portsmouth. I think the level of performance required at Spurs was just too high and the learning curve too steep.

I'm not sure how he'll perform in our new style, but he's at least shown the willingness and ability to learn.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

I think Kaboul improved a lot when he went to Portsmouth. I think the level of performance required at Spurs was just too high and the learning curve too steep.

I'm not sure how he'll perform in our new style, but he's at least shown the willingness and ability to learn.

now this i can get behind. kaboul HAS improved but it took him a while to do it in this country.

i'm still worried about him though

i dont worry about verts..except his work ethic in a couple of games.....i dont worry about dawson and i dont worry about gallas (despite some of his unfortunate)

walker and kaboul? i worry about those two

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Dawson

well when you put it like that i guess i see your point

but AVB was wrong. as in FLAT OUT wrong. he has much more or less admitted this. so instead of dawson improving...maybe AVB made a mistake.

and if AVB condemned him before giving him a chance then i am not impressed...not that he needs to impress me...the guy is taking tottenham places and i am here at work writing about it LOL.

That's an extreme, black and white interpretation of events.

A far more likely scenario:

AVB had a surfeit of centre backs. He had a limited transfer budget and other positions in which the squad looked rather weak.

All of a sudden, a club comes in with a very decent offer for Dawson of £10 million or so. That's £10 million which could be well used elsewhere in the squad. If AVB had determined, after observing Dawson in training, that he would struggle to come to terms with the new system, then it would have been a no brainer for him to allow Dawson to leave.

That's not "condemning" Dawson. It's simply making a choice; simply making a difficult decision for the overall betterment of the club. That's something that managers have to face every week.

As it turns out, AVB was wrong. And he has admitted it, freely and happily.

Now that IS impressive. Very impressive indeed. Very few people (especially in the egotistical world of football management) can do that.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Dawson

That's an extreme, black and white interpretation of events.

A far more likely scenario:

AVB had a surfeit of centre backs. He had a limited transfer budget and other positions in which the squad looked rather weak.

All of a sudden, a club comes in with a very decent offer for Dawson of £10 million or so. That's £10 million which could be well used elsewhere in the squad. If AVB had determined, after observing Dawson in training, that he would struggle to come to terms with the new system, then it would have been a no brainer for him to allow Dawson to leave.

That's not "condemning" Dawson. It's simply making a choice; simply making a difficult decision for the overall betterment of the club. That's something that managers have to face every week.

As it turns out, AVB was wrong. And he has admitted it, freely and happily.

Now that IS impressive. Very impressive indeed. Very few people (especially in the egotistical world of football management) can do that.

its not really an interpretation but more a condition which IF satisfied would leave me far from impressed. and you are right AVB admitting this IS extremely impressive.

 

[THFC6061]

Re: Dawson

well when you put it like that i guess i see your point

but AVB was wrong. as in FLAT OUT wrong. he has much more or less admitted this. so instead of dawson improving...maybe AVB made a mistake.

and if AVB condemned him before giving him a chance then i am not impressed...not that he needs to impress me...the guy is taking tottenham places and i am here at work writing about it LOL.

Or a far simpler scenario.

Spurs tell Dawson that there's an offer to move to QPR and he can't be guaranteed first team football with us.

Dawson says thanks, but I'd rather stay here and fight for my place.

 

[ArcspacE]

Re: Dawson

Or a far simpler scenario.

Spurs tell Dawson that there's an offer to move to QPR and he can't be guaranteed first team football with us.

Dawson says thanks, but I'd rather stay here and fight for my place.

Agreed - especially since AVB made it clear one needs to earn his place first

Funny how this wasn't an issue during the Lloris/Brad debacle

 

[tynesidespur]

Re: Dawson

I still think Dawson got his place back once Lloris was installed as first choice GK. With a keeper who is very pro-active in sweeping behind the defence, pace is less required in a back line.
I notice that Dawson and Friedel have still to be selected by AVB in the same match...

Also I personally am not seeing much difference between Dawson's performances in the past and Dawson's this season. Its the usual dominance in the air, getting blocks in, staying tight to strikers and marshalling the back line...pretty much what he's been doing since he arrived. He has always been fine with the ball at his feet - was more than proven the year we got 4th and then the following year in the CL. No problems at all.

 

[Papercut]

Re: Dawson

I still think Dawson got his place back once Lloris was installed as first choice GK. With a keeper who is very pro-active in sweeping behind the defence, pace is less required in a back line.
I notice that Dawson and Friedel have still to be selected by AVB in the same match...

Also I personally am not seeing much difference between Dawson's performances in the past and Dawson's this season. Its the usual dominance in the air, getting blocks in, staying tight to strikers and marshalling the back line...pretty much what he's been doing since he arrived. He has always been fine with the ball at his feet - was more than proven the year we got 4th and then the following year in the CL. No problems at all.

Good stuff bringing up Lloris in this debate - saved me a job.