Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[DubaiSpur]

Today kicked this "curse" into touch, we battered Chelsea for a good part of today's game.

And lost.

You could give me 19 world-class performances at Wembley next season, if we end up losing all of them to one goal scored from the oppo's only shot on target, we are still going down, mate. Only half-joking about that - something about Wembley really does put us out of whack, imo.

We can use next season to get over this Wembley brick. If we fail to win in 20-odd games, then fudge me.

Right, but getting over it will be very, very painful, imo. As I mentioned, I'm not totally convinced we won't be targeting 40 points first next season - Wembley saps us in a very strange way.

 

[StephenH]

And lost.

You could give me 19 world-class performances at Wembley next season, if we end up losing all of them to one goal scored from the oppo's only shot on target, we are still going down, mate. Only half-joking about that - something about Wembley really does put us out of whack, imo.



Right, but getting over it will be very, very painful, imo. As I mentioned, I'm not totally convinced we won't be targeting 40 points first next season - Wembley saps us in a very strange way.

We were competitive today which has been sadly lacking from our previous Wembley runouts!
We lost today (bloody shame) BUT we put in a proper shift, Wembley was just like WHL performance wise today.
Chelsea were just about worth win, mainly due to a bit of luck and a worldie from Matic and Sons brainfart (bless him).
Before today I was still a little nervous about Wembley - today has really stopped all that IMHO!

 

[DubaiSpur]

We were competitive today which has been sadly lacking from our previous Wembley runouts!
We lost today (bloody shame) BUT we put in a proper shift, Wembley was just like WHL performance wise today.
Chelsea were just about worth win, mainly due to a bit of luck and a worldie from Matic and Sons brainfart (bless him).
Before today I was still a little nervous about Wembley - today has really stopped all that IMHO!

Yeah, I can sort of agree looking at it from that viewpoint - we were definitely better than we were against Monaco, Leverkusen and Gent.

But I'm not convinced we were as flawless today as we usually are at WHL. Too many lost challenges, too many needless turnovers, too many moments where the chemistry was off. It was a good performance, mind-bending tactical weakness at LB notwithstanding - but nothing to suggest we're in for WHL-esque levels of performance at Wembley next season by any means.

 

[Tottenham Dave]

Weird Dubai.

 

[Tottenham Dave]

Dubai, built on slave labour, and false Beyond.
Themes...

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Yeah, I can sort of agree looking at it from that viewpoint - we were definitely better than we were against Monaco, Leverkusen and Gent.

But I'm not convinced we were as flawless today as we usually are at WHL. Too many lost challenges, too many needless turnovers, too many moments where the chemistry was off. It was a good performance, mind-bending tactical weakness at LB notwithstanding - but nothing to suggest we're in for WHL-esque levels of performance at Wembley next season by any means.

we slaughtered Gent and were also the better team against Leverkusen we are going to boss it next season without summer football to tire our players a Poch pre season and we are going to smash everyone next season

 

[glorygloryeze]

Great man, excellent coach, but sadly not a winner

You are a weird poster..

 

[DubaiSpur]

Weird Dubai.

Dubai, built on slave labour, and false Beyond.
Themes...

Erm....come again? Not sure what you're getting at.

we slaughtered Gent and were also the better team against Leverkusen we are going to boss it next season without summer football to tire our players a Poch pre season and we are going to smash everyone next season

We drew against Gent. We had a man sent off, rallied admirably, blah blah blah...but we drew. Against a mid-table Belgian side. And Leverkusen were better than us, mate - across both legs.

I hope you're right, but our record so far hasn't been inspiring, is all.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Erm....come again? Not sure what you're getting at.



We drew against Gent. We had a man sent off, rallied admirably, blah blah blah...but we drew. Against a mid-table Belgian side. And Leverkusen were better than us, mate - across both legs.

I hope you're right, but our record so far hasn't been inspiring, is all.

you leave my legs out of it

maybe I am thinking of the Monaco game then but one of them we were better then and honestly most of the teams we have played at Wembley would have been favourites against us over the last ten years. As long as we can rally and not let our heads drop like happened against Saudi Sportswashing Machine last season we should be ok. I think even if we can not win the league the players know it is important to come second.

Next season we will be fine, just need a few tweaks a good pre season no last minute signings and a favourable fixture list at the start of the season.

 

[metalgear]

Great man, excellent coach, but sadly not a winner

will be - with us.

 

[harr1984]

With all due respect, s*d off. I'm happy to discuss my positions, but not with someone who knowingly twists them around like that. 'Anti-Poch rants', what asinine, mindless nonsense.

Why does it have to be an anti Poch rant? He's a great coach, that's no doubt. But he hasn't won anything. As I said before all these stats about where we are when considering the teams age and our net spend etc are great, but he hasn't achieved anything and it's all about trophies. No team is remembered for simply punching above their weight. I love Poch and certainly don't think we are going to get any better than him but you have to be fair in your judgements. He's been here over three years now, and considering how established we are now it is right to question his ability to win trophies. Yea we are a young up and coming team, but if we truly believe that we are competing with Chelsea,Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal etc we have to start proving it by winning trophies like they have. Even Arsenal during their 'decline' have won the FA Cup for the past two years so I'm not sure how hard we should be laughing at them just because we actually finish ahead of them for once.

But anyway Poch is still a young coach and plenty of time for him to win things for us,but it's a legitimate thing to be thrown at him....

 

[Robspur12]

Why does it have to be an anti Poch rant? He's a great coach, that's no doubt. But he hasn't won anything. As I said before all these stats about where we are when considering the teams age and our net spend etc are great, but he hasn't achieved anything and it's all about trophies. No team is remembered for simply punching above their weight. I love Poch and certainly don't think we are going to get any better than him but you have to be fair in your judgements. He's been here over three years now, and considering how established we are now it is right to question his ability to win trophies. Yea we are a young up and coming team, but if we truly believe that we are competing with Chelsea,Emirates Marketing Project, Arsenal etc we have to start proving it by winning trophies like they have. Even Arsenal during their 'decline' have won the FA Cup for the past two years so I'm not sure how hard we should be laughing at them just because we actually finish ahead of them for once.

But anyway Poch is still a young coach and plenty of time for him to win things for us,but it's a legitimate thing to be thrown at him....

Poch should just load the dice in his favour, take on one of the top jobs like Conte or do an AVB and go and manage the best club in a weak league, I expect, he would soon win titles. Perhaps he should take the Barca job this summer then he'll be able to get that monkey off his back. I am sure, with the young players coming through and given the respect Ferguson has shown him he could get the United job in a few years. Some Arsenal fans are even stating on social media he should replace Wenger. For the moment, luckily for us, he chooses to stay at our club. A club which I love but I accept does not tend "to be a winner" and given the resources of its rivals, including Arsenal is very much the underdog to win trophies to these days.

Instead of "throwing" at him that "he is not a winner" should we not appreciate that he chooses to stay here, at least for now? Should we not celebrate what he has achieved by having us compete with the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Arsenal and United?

That he has not won things at Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs does not mean he "is not a winner" in the context that the original poster suggested, i.e. that he is not capable of being a winner or if we had a different coach we would somehow be laden with trophies.

I have a sad feeling we will only appreciate how much of a "winner" Poch is when he leaves us and manages a top side in the same way our top players left to win trophies.

 

[StephenH]

Yeah, I can sort of agree looking at it from that viewpoint - we were definitely better than we were against Monaco, Leverkusen and Gent.

But I'm not convinced we were as flawless today as we usually are at WHL. Too many lost challenges, too many needless turnovers, too many moments where the chemistry was off. It was a good performance, mind-bending tactical weakness at LB notwithstanding - but nothing to suggest we're in for WHL-esque levels of performance at Wembley next season by any means.

We were playing a good Chelsea side not Bournmouth!
I agree with Son but other than that I was okish yesterday after the first 10 minutes.
I thought goalkeepers were meant to stop the ball going in the net - Hugo had a poor game imho, Courtois didn't!

 

[harr1984]

Poch should just load the dice in his favour, take on one of the top jobs like Conte or do an AVB and go and manage the best club in a weak league, I expect, he would soon win titles. Perhaps he should take the Barca job this summer then he'll be able to get that monkey off his back. I am sure, with the young players coming through and given the respect Ferguson has shown him he could get the United job in a few years. Some Arsenal fans are even stating on social media he should replace Wenger. For the moment, luckily for us, he chooses to stay at our club. A club which I love but I accept does not tend "to be a winner" and given the resources of its rivals, including Arsenal is very much the underdog to win trophies to these days.

Instead of "throwing" at him that "he is not a winner" should we not appreciate that he chooses to stay here, at least for now? Should we not celebrate what he has achieved by having us compete with the likes of Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Arsenal and United?

That he has not won things at Espanyol, Southampton and Spurs does not mean he "is not a winner" in the context that the original poster suggested, i.e. that he is not capable of being a winner or if we had a different coach we would somehow be laden with trophies.

I have a sad feeling we will only appreciate how much of a "winner" Poch is when he leaves us and manages a top side in the same way our top players left to win trophies.

No no, i very much appreciate his success here and what he's been building. By his admission and my own expectations I didn't anticipate being at the level we are now. But the point is for him to be considered a top coach, or our club to be considered achieving a genuine successful period you have to win things. The odds are Poch will only be here a few more seasons max and for it to be a genuinely memorable era he needs trophies. That isn't underappreciating him in anyway at all, we certainly couldn't get any better here. And sorry but to be considered a winner you do have to win things, to try and argue that by overachieving or 'competing' also qualifies as such is just a second rate mindset. There are plenty of managers out there who do those things, and winning trophies is the hardest thing to do - MUCH harder than just overachieving. The future is bright for us under Poch and I'm confident he will bring us a trophy or two if he sticks around long enough but until he does it's a fair question to point at him. There are plenty of coaches who have won trophies at smaller clubs than us so he needs to step up simple as that....

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Poch has been with us for 3 seasons. In that time he's cleared out the squad, engendered a team spirit that I can't remember seeing before, even back in the 80s (although social media helps with that awareness in today's world), taken us to a cup final, a cup semi-final, league positions of 5th, 3rd and ?, turned us into a title challenging club, and now playing some of the best football I've seen us play, consistently, for a long time, and has players, many of whom could be earning lots more elsewhere, eating out of the palm of his hand. To me, that is a Winner's mentality, to coin Poch's own phrase. OK, there's no trophy (yet) to turn the mentality into hardware. But that does not mean he is not a "winner". Everything he has done in the past three seasons has been a win, imo. Keep him at the club, keep the team together, keep improving the overall squad, as Poch has said is his plan, and we will be winning silverware before long, of that I am confident. Of course, yesterday was hugely disappointing, because we know we are good enough to go further. But with patience, it will come. Poch has made his intentions about his aims for this club very clear, so I am going to trust him to deliver on them.

I'm not too worried about Wembley next year (although maybe just a little about our lack of control, literally, of the pitch - i.e. the pitch/playing surface maintenance). I think Poch and his staff will have the players ready for it.

 

[Robspur12]

No no, i very much appreciate his success here and what he's been building. By his admission and my own expectations I didn't anticipate being at the level we are now. But the point is for him to be considered a top coach, or our club to be considered achieving a genuine successful period you have to win things. The odds are Poch will only be here a few more seasons max and for it to be a genuinely memorable era he needs trophies. That isn't underappreciating him in anyway at all, we certainly couldn't get any better here. And sorry but to be considered a winner you do have to win things, to try and argue that by overachieving or 'competing' also qualifies as such is just a second rate mindset. There are plenty of managers out there who do those things, and winning trophies is the hardest thing to do - MUCH harder than just overachieving. The future is bright for us under Poch and I'm confident he will bring us a trophy or two if he sticks around long enough but until he does it's a fair question to point at him. There are plenty of coaches who have won trophies at smaller clubs than us so he needs to step up simple as that....

I don't think there are plenty of managers at smaller clubs in ultra competitive leagues who have won trophies. To do so at Spurs will be a truly phenomenal achievement given our history. The last manager of Spurs to win a cluster of trophies was Burkinshaw and at that time we were on a relatively equal footing with our rivals.

 

[harr1984]

I don't think there are plenty of managers at smaller clubs in ultra competitive leagues who have won trophies. To do so at Spurs will be a truly phenomenal achievement given our history. The last manager of Spurs to win a cluster of trophies was Burkinshaw and at that time we were on a relatively equal footing with our rivals.

Diego Simeone, Ranieri are just a couple that crop up of recent memory and I'm sure there's others. Of course it would be a massive achievement if he won a cluster of trophies, let's just worry about him winning one first! It's not a big criticism regarding this 'winner' thing, but to be considered one of the truly top coaches he should win a trophy or two at Spurs, we aren't that smaller club...

 

[Spurs7891]

Frankly, If we are to win any trophy under Pochettino, it has to be the league title. He doesn't seem to have the right approach in FA Cup, League Cup or Europe.

 

[Robspur12]

Diego Simeone, Ranieri are just a couple that crop up of recent memory and I'm sure there's others. Of course it would be a massive achievement if he won a cluster of trophies, let's just worry about him winning one first! It's not a big criticism regarding this 'winner' thing, but to be considered one of the truly top coaches he should win a trophy or two at Spurs, we aren't that smaller club...

To win a trophy as Spurs fans are calling for we need to focus on one competition and go for it probably foregoing others. That's how Ranieri won with Leicester. Look where Leicester are in the league when they have to fight on multiple fronts. But given the number of injuries we have picked up perhaps we should just focus on one tournament to give Poch his "winners" medal. I am not sure most Spurs fan would find that an acceptable sacrifice.

 

[harr1984]

To win a trophy as Spurs fans are calling for we need to focus on one competition and go for it probably foregoing others. That's how Ranieri won with Leicester. Look where Leicester are in the league when they have to fight on multiple fronts. But given the number of injuries we have picked up perhaps we should just focus on one tournament to give Poch his "winners" medal. I am not sure most Spurs fan would find that an acceptable sacrifice.

No we don't need to make sacrifices. Of course only being competitive in one competition helps,but on another day we should have beaten Chelsea yesterday and had a fair to good chance to win the final so who says we need to make sacrifices? Fact is under Poch we have had a few big games determining whether we can go on to win a trophy or not, and to date he's failed them all. We can compete against anyone, but we need to win some of these 'decider' big games more, and that is what will convert Poch into a winner. He's done wonders for us, but nonetheless he isn't beyond constructive criticism, and I am sure knowing how competitive he is that he himself is as self critical about not winning a trophy with us as any fan....