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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Bullet said:
Regardless of the bench depth, a coach can change a huge amount in terms of formation or instructions. Simply getting players to stay wide or shoot or push forwards more or whatever... I'm not talking about extreme measures like put Bentaleb into a back 3 and go 3-0-7... there is loads a coach can do rather than sitting back looking frustrated as we try to lick through granite.
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You're right. I think the right changes were made at the right times in many games last season, hence a lot of coming from behind and winning late on as the guy above says. Of course, there were times when it started badly and all went to brick, but that happens.

I am interested to see what Poch can do once he gets the squad how he wants it. I think a forward like Berahino or Hernandez, N'Jie and a DM like Bender, Kramer or something like that and he will have what he wants. Its up to him to build something impressive then.

By that I don't necessarily mean top 4. That's not Poch's target, his target for a "perform" rating to use business speak is top 6. We have the 6th biggest budget so we should finish 6th. 6th is "perform", 5th is an "over perform", Top 4 is "star perform".

It's something to aim for but not something to beat him with if we don't achieve it.

What I'm looking for isn't more flexibility, it's actually less flexibility, I want less plan B coming into action to rescue games and more team cohesion and 90 minute cohesive performances where we d*ck teams in the first half and relax in the second half.

That would represent progress even if the league position doesn't move upwards (or even moves downwards if Liverpool get their act together.
 
Bullet said:
Regardless of the bench depth, a coach can change a huge amount in terms of formation or instructions. Simply getting players to stay wide or shoot or push forwards more or whatever... I'm not talking about extreme measures like put Bentaleb into a back 3 and go 3-0-7... there is loads a coach can do rather than sitting back looking frustrated as we try to lick through granite.
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You (and others) might disagree with me on this but I think that Ferguson's main tactic was to chuck on another forward and the reason he was more successful than his competitors, most of the time, was because he had the better forwards on the bench.
 
Raziel said:
- Go wide in midfield to make more space, get behind defense? -> almost never used by Poch
- Use a quick player to make runs to either pull defenders or get to through ball played -> used in last preseason, never seen after
- Change the tempo of passing -> reason he brought Mason into side instead of Capoue/Stambouli/Dembele in my opinion

Again, I'm not having a fudgeing go at Poch, 5th was a result to be commended, as was 3 players in double figures, however

- I don't see him as a flexible manager, either tactically or with players
- Our defensive side of the game was fudgeing appalling, and that wasn't all to do with Kaboul/Vlad, the system is part of the issue.

Hopefully he's learning and this season will show a bit more, but lets be clear, his style mentor was limited as well.
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I think that the most successful tactic is to have a player who can create something out of nothing. We have a couple of those but they are probably not quite of the quality of the game changers of the teams that finished above us.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Agree with you NWND. The fact that we had 3 players that got into double figures is something to be celebrated yet it is being used to actually criticise the system. We were amongst the top two teams that got points from a losing position. If that doesn't show a manager or team that is able to change things then frankly I don't know what is. We did this despite having rather limited options from the bench. With the new signings and the prospective new signings, I can only see this aspect improving.

Now people will comment on the fact that this was mostly done in last minute winners etc... If that happened once or twice, I'd say it was luck. The fact that it happened as much as it did, shows something is working. Ideally, we would never be in a losing position in the first place, and Poch has obviously worked quite hard on this in the pre-season so why don't we give the team a chance, not just one game, before we start ripping it up and replacing key players that got us there.
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I agree. It should be celebrated. BUT, I also feel their goals papered over some cracks.

I also agree about luck, we did it too many times to be considered "lucky". There's two ways to look at it, you could make a case that we looked quite ordinary in a number of games and the goals came almost out of the blue, or you could argue that we did well to win games that we didn't necessarily deserve to win as all good teams have to learn to win whilst not at their best, you don't always win games when you deserve to so you do have to also win the games where it's a struggle.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That we conceded too many due to the defence not being up to scratch and the midfield not protecting them enough.
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Yeah, I think that everyone's reached the same conclusion. Hopefully, improving the defence and reinforcements/another year's experience in midfield will mean that this is less of a problem this year.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I agree. It should be celebrated. BUT, I also feel their goals papered over some cracks.

I also agree about luck, we did it too many times to be considered "lucky". There's two ways to look at it, you could make a case that we looked quite ordinary in a number of games and the goals came almost out of the blue, or you could argue that we did well to win games that we didn't necessarily deserve to win as all good teams have to learn to win whilst not at their best, you don't always win games when you deserve to so you do have to also win the games where it's a struggle.
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I'm with Milo in that I don't think anyone is saying that we don't need to improve the defence. The points that there are disagreement on are:

1. Whether a DM is needed to improve our defence - I would argue that a greater awareness from our existing midfield pairing would be adequate. However, this is irrelevant as Poch has decided (for the first game at least) that he is prepared to play a more defensively minded midfielder in midfield.

2. Poch is tactically inflexible - I don't agree. He played with Capoue as a defensive midfielder, decided against it. We've played with 2 up front, 1 up front, with inverted forwards, non-inverted forwards. Yes, he has a system that is his bread and butter. A system that Southampton players said took them almost a year to grasp. The tactical analysis from the Man United game seems to suggest that our players are getting it.

3. We missed out on an opportunity to break into the top 4 last year - I don't get this at all. Man United and Emirates Marketing Project were not there for the taking, imho. Their squads are just superior to ours. As are Arsenal's and Chelsea's. What I find really interesting is that people here think that a squad with Lamela, Soldado, Adebayor, Paulinho, Capoue is actually good enough for the top 4! Most of those same people would say each and every one of those players were/are brick! Of course it's Poch's defensive tactics and tactical inflexibility that has stopped us from getting top 4!
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
3. We missed out on an opportunity to break into the top 4 last year - I don't get this at all. Man United and Emirates Marketing Project were not there for the taking, imho. Their squads are just superior to ours. As are Ar5ena1's and Chel53a's. What I find really interesting is that people here think that a squad with Lamela, Soldado, Adebayor, Paulinho, Capoue is actually good enough for the top 4! Most of those same people would say each and every one of those players were/are ****! Of course it's Poch's defensive tactics and tactical inflexibility that has stopped us from getting top 4!
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Do you actually want to list out the players in HR's first squad that got 4th? (hint -> Hutton, Huddlestone, Jenas, Palacios, Pav, Bassong were among the players)

It's not about being good enough to be top 4, on paper it wasn't good enough, however a little better home record, quicker reaction to non performing players, a little more willingness to adjust combined with general underperformaning form of 3 the big teams, meant it was possible. Not blaming Poch, because it would have been an extraordinary achievement, but it was on the table.

Anyway .. this is getting tiresome .. Poch had a good season, but it seems any genuine analysis of issues has to be shouted down .. usual Spurs unfortunately, either brilliant or brick and no in-between ...
 
You can achieve success with the journeymen players if you've also got a critical mass of top quality. For me, we're still playing with a short deck. We may address that fully before the window closes, and we may not. History would suggest the latter is more likely.
 
I think the commentator last night said Man Utd won 6 of 19 away games, is that true? Not exactly an impossible target! What did we do?
 
Raziel said:
Do you actually want to list out the players in HR's first squad that got 4th? (hint -> Hutton, Huddlestone, Jenas, Palacios, Pav, Bassong were among the players)

It's not about being good enough to be top 4, on paper it wasn't good enough, however a little better home record, quicker reaction to non performing players, a little more willingness to adjust combined with general underperformaning form of 3 the big teams, meant it was possible. Not blaming Poch, because it would have been an extraordinary achievement, but it was on the table.

Anyway .. this is getting tiresome .. Poch had a good season, but it seems any genuine analysis of issues has to be shouted down .. usual Spurs unfortunately, either brilliant or **** and no in-between ...
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I think it is getting tiresome as well. If you feel that I was shouting you down, I apologise. In my mind I was just responding to points. For the record though I absolutely do believe that Spurs are in-between brilliant (top 4) and brick (outside top 6).
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I'm with Milo in that I don't think anyone is saying that we don't need to improve the defence. The points that there are disagreement on are:

1. Whether a DM is needed to improve our defence - I would argue that a greater awareness from our existing midfield pairing would be adequate. However, this is irrelevant as Poch has decided (for the first game at least) that he is prepared to play a more defensively minded midfielder in midfield.

2. Poch is tactically inflexible - I don't agree. He played with Capoue as a defensive midfielder, decided against it. We've played with 2 up front, 1 up front, with inverted forwards, non-inverted forwards. Yes, he has a system that is his bread and butter. A system that Southampton players said took them almost a year to grasp. The tactical analysis from the Man United game seems to suggest that our players are getting it.

3. We missed out on an opportunity to break into the top 4 last year - I don't get this at all. Man United and Emirates Marketing Project were not there for the taking, imho. Their squads are just superior to ours. As are Ar5ena1's and Chel53a's. What I find really interesting is that people here think that a squad with Lamela, Soldado, Adebayor, Paulinho, Capoue is actually good enough for the top 4! Most of those same people would say each and every one of those players were/are ****! Of course it's Poch's defensive tactics and tactical inflexibility that has stopped us from getting top 4!
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Point 2 - I agree, I do not believe he is inflexible. He proved that by getting rid of Ade, Capoue and Kaboul.

Point 3 - Also agree. Top 4 was a big ask last season. Our squad still needs to be improved significantly before we can realistically look to get into the top 4. We need more experience and creativity.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I think it is getting tiresome as well. If you feel that I was shouting you down, I apologise. In my mind I was just responding to points. For the record though I absolutely do believe that Spurs are in-between brilliant (top 4) and **** (outside top 6).
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The shout down comment wasn't directed at you mate ... anyway match day! and we have a new signing ... time to be positive
 
No Plan B, no Plan C... no tactics other than the same rigid system...

Today was a chastening day for my opinion of Poch! Totally unable to even see the problem let alone address it.
 
Jordinho said:
Try watching the game first.
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Saw the game mate

- We set up well initially, probably unlucky not to be 3 up at half time
- Hughes made changes, Poch failed to counter effectively and actually made it worse by bringing on one player out of form, and a second who consistently fails to deliver.
- 2 games in 2015 we have managed to keep a clean sheet at home .. simply not good enough ...

Number of areas you could show Poch fudging up today
- Despite Walker having a decent game, once he was a yellow, Stoke targeted him, we easily could have subbed him out, on top of that you put on Lamela in front of him who weakens the right side even more, and guess which side the goal came from?

He needs to sort it out very soon ...
 
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