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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

Raziel said:
Chasing you tail mate .. it will just be another spin on unsubstantiated nonsense

- No one here can honestly believe Levy didn't know the financial impact of the stadium, and what squad strategy adjustments we needed to make
- Once again, when convenient we ignore that people very close to the club have insisted Poch turned down players that summer of no transfers (so there was some money)
- Poch keeps playing Rose, Toby, Eriksen, I find it very hard to believe that Poch gave Levy a hard message to move them on (and I think this indecisiveness is a big part of what cost us), if we had told all of the players we believe we needed to move on, "find a club because you aren't going to be playing next season" it would have been a push and helped the change, instead we have this "we are working with the players" flimflam.

There is no need for us to drop the prices, does anyone really believe 25M was too much for Toby? The problem was Poch wasn't fudging clear (and still isn't), you don't want to be here, you want a new challenge, you want out, fine, have your agent make it happen at a price the club expects or you will rot in the fudging reserves, you will not see the first team, you don't get it all on your terms ...

And the last point is critical, the players no longer feel consequences for behavior or performances under Poch.
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Of course they would have modelled out the financial impact. Now square it with the realities of players not moving on.

turning down players who didn’t represent the top tier is different from just turning down players. Poch wanted us to make a leap - a leap we seem to have made this summer as a start by getting a player like N’Dombele, but if the choice was wait until we can get properly good players or best of the rest players, he clearly wanted to wait. And again, if certain players weren’t moving on, it makes it harder to bring in new ones anyway.

It is interesting that a lot of people are so sure he should just bomb certain players out, as if there are no negative consequences to doing that too early too. But people are awfully sure despite not knowing what is going on behind the scenes. For instance, maybe Winks is actually struggling a bit even though he is totally committed. Toby has looked better the last couple of games despite being on the way out. But if we have these players, and haven’t had the benefit of getting a fee for them, we are cutting our nose off to spite our face. We need to make it work with them, or we risk over exposing youth players, damaging their confidence and potentially not seeing any better results anyway. And I say youth players because with the various injuries to GLC, Davies, Sess, Lamela, Foyth, Aurier at the start of the season, that’s what it would have been, if we also bomb the contract rebels too soon.
 
scaramanga said:
If we need to refresh the squad to continue to compete (and I'm still not convinced we do) then we have to sell whoever we can to refresh the squad.

If this is the alternative, it certainly can't be any worse.
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Maybe just have a bit of patience and trust? Get through the bad period to come out the other side? Someone please tell me why Spurs is destined to be a constant upward smooth journey with no bumps, and if we do have bumps it must mean that the manager has lost it? Why is that our destiny?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think all of the players would've been prepared to move on for the right offer and the right offer sometimes has to be facilitated by dropping the transfer fee demanded considerably. Had we asked for (e.g) a £10 million fee for all of those players that Poch wanted gone I bet they all suddenly would've found new homes as the lower transfer fee would've led to bigger wage packages for the players.
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Yep, see Wanyama. If we'd dropped our price, Bruges(?) may have been prepared to pay the wages he was asking. Levy is good at seeing the worth of players in real terms, but not so much in what it means to squad harmony. Something he could definitely improve on.
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'm not really cherry-picking any more than if someone says "we've had to play x tough away games" etc.

Our fixtures are no more difficult than they have been in previous seasons. If you want to look at difficult fixtures, look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine's or Palace's.

I've actually taken away the games one calls difficult to show how bad our form has been. Is Everton's spending much bigger than ours? Plus if you buy average players for a lot of money does that necessarily give them (or anyone else) an advantage? So again, i think that's a red herring. If we are including Everton ( a tea we have won away at 3 times out of the last 5) a "tough away game" rather than a "not easy but our quality should prevail" kind of fixture then we really have problems.
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Palace and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have indeed had tough fixtures, but some at least have been at home.
And how is it cherry picking to say that our away fixtures (the topic we're discussing) have been against the the top teams?.
I'll give you Everton, with a caveat of their position is a road we could well be treading soon if we rush I to a decision on the way forward.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Maybe just have a bit of patience and trust? Get through the bad period to come out the other side? Someone please tell me why Spurs is destined to be a constant upward smooth journey with no bumps, and if we do have bumps it must mean that the manager has lost it? Why is that our destiny?
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If those bumps had left us with the 17th best team in the country and Poch was working his magic to have us performing like the 15th best, I'd be praising him as highly as I have over the last few years.

If those bumps have left us with the 2nd (some fools say 3rd) best team in the country, then near relegation form means he's brick the bed.
 
scaramanga said:
If we need to refresh the squad to continue to compete (and I'm still not convinced we do) then we have to sell whoever we can to refresh the squad.

If this is the alternative, it certainly can't be any worse.
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So you don't think we need to replace rose or Sissoko (neither of which you have a good word for), Wanyama who is perma crocked, Eriksen who is totally disinterested, or Toby who has dropped below his peak?
Interesting.
 
scaramanga said:
If those bumps had left us with the 17th best team in the country and Poch was working his magic to have us performing like the 15th best, I'd be praising him as highly as I have over the last few years.

If those bumps have left us with the 2nd (some fools say 3rd) best team in the country, then near relegation form means he's brick the bed.
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I think it's pretty likely that only fools would think we had the 2nd best team.....
 
Something that I was considering the other day regarding those that would advocate Mourinho taking over as manager here.

Considering Mourinho had 3 summer transfer windows at Man Utd with a lot of money to spend, yet we still apparently have a better team than them, does that not lead one to believe that Mourinho must've actually done a pretty poor job at Man Utd?
 
scaramanga said:
If those bumps had left us with the 17th best team in the country and Poch was working his magic to have us performing like the 15th best, I'd be praising him as highly as I have over the last few years.

If those bumps have left us with the 2nd (some fools say 3rd) best team in the country, then near relegation form means he's brick the bed.
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the season isn’t over yet. It’s just over a quarter of the way through.

good though to see you’re able to stick with someone when the going gets tough, rather than discard when it looks like things are getting hard.
 
glasgowspur said:
So you don't think we need to replace rose or Sissoko (neither of which you have a good word for), Wanyama who is perma crocked, Eriksen who is totally disinterested, or Toby who has dropped below his peak?
Interesting.
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Comes down to whether you think we need to buy to replace.

If, perhaps, there were perfectly viable replacements in the squad, what excuse then for Poch playing these players?
 
scaramanga said:
Let's be generous and assume that Poch saw this coming in advance (I don't believe he did, but for the sake of the discussion I'll make that assumption).....

Did he:
  1. Ignore it, or
  2. Find himself incapable of fixing it
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Let's be generous and include answer 3 & 4 as an option as well?

Just for balance.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Comes down to whether you think we need to buy to replace.

If, perhaps, there were perfectly viable replacements in the squad, what excuse then for Poch playing these players?
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So name the replacements, for the squad mind, not games or a game.
I've named half a dozen or so players, do you really think our squad is good enough to cope with not playing them and not replacing them?
 
glasgowspur said:
Palace and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have indeed had tough fixtures, but some at least have been at home.
And how is it cherry picking to say that our away fixtures (the topic we're discussing) have been against the the top teams?.
I'll give you Everton, with a caveat of their position is a road we could well be treading soon if we rush I to a decision on the way forward.
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My point is that i was looking at our OVERALL return from the games we've played, not just the away games.

Not beating one of Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Watford, Brighton and Everton is simply shocking
 
scaramanga said:
Players not wanting to move is a hiccup - that's why we have to be ahead of timetable, to allow for problems like that. There should have been alternative player sales prepared and alternative purchases too.

That's all assuming the squad actually does need refreshing and it's not just Poch making them add up to less than the sum of their parts.
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Ah....you're wasted at your company.....it's so easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Corbyn speak

Ps. Probably shouldn't mention the lemons.
 
glasgowspur said:
So name the replacements, for the squad mind, not games or a game.
I've named half a dozen or so players, do you really think our squad is good enough to cope with not playing them and not replacing them?
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I've been naming players for weeks.

Imo most if not all those you name could (and should) be dropped for their alternative.

Poch is most definitely not obligated or forced to play them.

Stick them on the bench if need be, but the team simply doesn't move forward while they are still all in the first 11
 
glorygloryeze said:
My point is that i was looking at our OVERALL return from the games we've played, not just the away games.

Not beating one of Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Watford, Brighton and Everton is simply shocking
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I totally agree our overall firm has been shocking and we should be beating those teams.
Our away form is being isolated and is now a distraction. In reality our away results are not any worse than should be expected.
 
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