glasgowspur
Nayim
So with that logic no elite manager would ever get fired, who are they again?
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
So with that logic no elite manager would ever get fired, who are they again?
I thought it was about refreshing the squad, not player being on the end of contracts?
They tend to get fired once they're no longer performing at an elite level.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Because elite Managers never have a bad run of results? Who are these ones again?
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Since that fluky draw vs Emirates Marketing Project, which we got away with but would have been expected to have been a springboard of "well we've played the best team, now let's get at the rest" attitude:
Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Palace, Southampton, Brighton, Watford, Everton.
Points available: 18; Points gained: 8.
Is that level of points return what should be expected?
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It's all linked *obviously* - do we, with a limited budget, try to replace quality players like Eriksen Vertonghen Alderweireld and Dembele knowing we are unlikely to replace like for like with regards to level of ability, or do we stick it out and hope they maintain focus/performance and when they do leave on frees we are in the new stadium with a better platform from which to attract/buy players of the required quality?
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BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Or, we keep our powder dry. The fact that we haven’t spent too much means we should have some cash to play with when the squad space opens up.
Or, we could have released Rose on a free, but before the benefit of the new stadium money has started filtering through, meaning we wild have had a squad space to fill but with only the ability to continue to shop in the best of the rest category as we shoot our load too soon.
See why this isn’t necessarily as easy as it looks from the outside? Why we maybe had to be patient and deal with circumstances outside of our control as it relates to refreshing the side?
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
What about the 'attacks' on anyone who think Poch is to blame for the malaise or who can't see any signs that he is capable of turning it around?
If you call the back and forth today with those who hold a similar view to you a 'barrage' then that simply says you don't think the debate is 'healthy' or you don't like the views held by those who think differently to you. Personally i think the back and forth has been very respectful..
Fair enough you created a separate thread, but this is the Mauricio Pochettino thread after all.
glasgowspur
Nayim
Cherry picking.
This season.
Last season is history, if you aren't happy with top four, CL final and f a cup sf then not much can be said.
This season my point stands, how much more difficult could our fixtures have been?
The narrative of our away form is wrong and overstated.
Unfortunately the narrative on our general form isn't.
See the post above yours. Not sure why Poch is considered above all the others.
Or we prepare well enough in advance, knowing that the stadium build will inhibit transfer spend, and make sure we don't land in this entirely unacceptable situation.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
how does preparing well enough in advance square with players not being willing to move on and the financial realities of not being able to release anyone we want to for free to instigate the rebuild?
Players not wanting to move is a hiccup - that's why we have to be ahead of timetable, to allow for problems like that. There should have been alternative player sales prepared and alternative purchases too.
That's all assuming the squad actually does need refreshing and it's not just Poch making them add up to less than the sum of their parts.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
I think all of the players would've been prepared to move on for the right offer and the right offer sometimes has to be facilitated by dropping the transfer fee demanded considerably. Had we asked for (e.g) a £10 million fee for all of those players that Poch wanted gone I bet they all suddenly would've found new homes as the lower transfer fee would've led to bigger wage packages for the players.
glasgowspur
Nayim
The only posters saying poch is above all others are the one putting words in other peoples mouths.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I'm not really cherry-picking any more than if someone says "we've had to play x tough away games" etc.
Our fixtures are no more difficult than they have been in previous seasons. If you want to look at difficult fixtures, look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine's or Palace's.
I've actually taken away the games one calls difficult to show how bad our form has been. Is Everton's spending much bigger than ours? Plus if you buy average players for a lot of money does that necessarily give them (or anyone else) an advantage? So again, i think that's a red herring. If we are including Everton ( a tea we have won away at 3 times out of the last 5) a "tough away game" rather than a "not easy but our quality should prevail" kind of fixture then we really have problems.
Chasing you tail mate .. it will just be another spin on unsubstantiated nonsense
- No one here can honestly believe Levy didn't know the financial impact of the stadium, and what squad strategy adjustments we needed to make
- Once again, when convenient we ignore that people very close to the club have insisted Poch turned down players that summer of no transfers (so there was some money)
- Poch keeps playing Rose, Toby, Eriksen, I find it very hard to believe that Poch gave Levy a hard message to move them on (and I think this indecisiveness is a big part of what cost us), if we had told all of the players we believe we needed to move on, "find a club because you aren't going to be playing next season" it would have been a push and helped the change, instead we have this "we are working with the players" flimflam.
There is no need for us to drop the prices, does anyone really believe 25M was too much for Toby? The problem was Poch wasn't fudging clear (and still isn't), you don't want to be here, you want a new challenge, you want out, fine, have your agent make it happen at a price the club expects or you will rot in the fudging reserves, you will not see the first team, you don't get it all on your terms ...
And the last point is critical, the players no longer feel consequences for behavior or performances under Poch.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Those last two points are crucial @Raziel
Poch actively chose not to play Alderweireld in most of our games when he returned from that injury he had vs Real Madrid in early 2018. How much discussion was on here about whether it was "contract related" vs "Sanchez deserves to play"? Remeber Toby often only played some Cup games plus the odd PL game and here and there, but most of the big games in the latter part of that season (be it the CL games vs Juve or the FA Cup semi final etc) Poch played Sanchez alongside Vertonghen.
Remember how Poch flipped out when asked a question about Toby and whether he's be playing soon in a press conference around that time?
So this idea Poch has no choice but to play him now is shown to be simply flimflam by looking at past actions.
Again no consequences for supposed lack of 'loyalty' like there would have been before. Ditto Rose and his often poor play.
I do think Levy and the board are culpable for some of this, but Poch has lost his nerve in terms of benching under-performing players it seems
Poch actively chose not to play Alderweireld in most of our games when he returned from that injury he had vs Real Madrid in early 2018. How much discussion was on here about whether it was "contract related" vs "Sanchez deserves to play"? Remeber Toby often only played some Cup games plus the odd PL game and here and there, but most of the big games in the latter part of that season (be it the CL games vs Juve or the FA Cup semi final etc) Poch played Sanchez alongside Vertonghen.
Remember how Poch flipped out when asked a question about Toby and whether he's be playing soon in a press conference around that time?
So this idea Poch has no choice but to play him now is shown to be simply flimflam by looking at past actions.
Again no consequences for supposed lack of 'loyalty' like there would have been before. Ditto Rose and his often poor play.
I do think Levy and the board are culpable for some of this, but Poch has lost his nerve in terms of benching under-performing players it seems
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
ok, so instead of selling the players that don’t want to be here but are clinging on, who shall we sell? Dele? Son? Maybe force Ben Davies out?
and then when those players who don’t want to be here and eventually run down their contracts, what then? We’ve sold committed players and we’re losing the others anyway.
The idea that the squad needs refreshing comes from what near enough every top manager who has spoken on the subject has said. Why do you think it doesn’t particularly apply to us?
If we need to refresh the squad to continue to compete (and I'm still not convinced we do) then we have to sell whoever we can to refresh the squad.
If this is the alternative, it certainly can't be any worse.