Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[ricky2tricky4city]

Why would anyone want to?

- You are mixing up personal feelings/like for Poch with what is best for the club (I'm a Spurs fan, not a Poch fan).

Facts

- History shows exactly what happens to managers at this stage when they hit a bad run .. and it never "turns around"
- 2nd, the names people have indicated, i.e. Jose & Allegri are in all likelihood better managers than prime Poch.

This isn't about having balls, this is about having a real conversation of "is it even possible to turn this around" and btw, re your last point of "if Poch wants to be here", the fact we have to ask is a big part of the problem itself.

History, the situation all point to the best course of action being brave (having cajones) and making the right decision now, instead fo hobbling to the inevitable, costing us point and further damaging squad confidence.

Perhaps people have taken all the relevant issues, weighed them up and, quite simply, come to a different conclusion to you. It happens.

And so we wait.

And any patronising tone won't help in the meantime.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Every player who has played for him talks about him in a similar way to Poch

I’m not saying Dyche is the answer for us at all. The answer for us is Poch

But people who don’t rate Dyche are IMO missing a trick

I do rate Dyche, have done for a long time.

My feeling at this point though is that of questioning, is he evolving any more?

And I think the comparison to Moyes stands. The whole time he was at Everton people made excuses for the football, citing a lack of money, and saying he would do much better with more resources.

How well did that go? Exactly as well as I predicted it would. He had 11 years (I think) at Everton. No matter the budget (at times he spent plenty), he could have developed that side into anything he wanted. What they were is what he made them, not "He could do better if..."

Im beginning to think the same of Dyche.

 

[StephenH]

My feeling at this point though is that of questioning, is he evolving any more?

The ability to "evolve" or not, is very pertinent to our ongoing situation.

 

[Raziel]

Perhaps people have taken all the relevant issues, weighed them up and, quite simply, come to a different conclusion to you. It happens.

And so we wait.

And any patronising tone won't help in the meantime.

And that's fair, but the question itself was patronizing, inferring that the only reason to not back Poch was a lack of cajones.

My answer for what it worth wasn't meant to be patronizing, it was in my opinion the logical answer was opposite to the solution offered.

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

This thread has taken a bizarre turn IMO.

Funny to see it...funny and a bit sad.

I mean, does ANYONE here have the cajones, courage and trust to see what Poch can do between now and the January window? Even at our worst we are still 5 points off second simply because however poorly they are performing, they are top quality players.

FWIW I heard back in the summer that Allegri had already been factored as the potential replacement had Poch shown signs of cutting and running.

I am going to back Poch to get us out of this, providing he makes the calls which need to be made and turfs the wasters out. Again, if HE wants to be here, we will rise again and pretty fast...

Not actually fussed what happens if I'm brutally honest. He stays he stays. He goes he goes. Quite unusual but I've lost interest in most things spurs now and its only October. I won't be shouting for Poch to go but I won't be shouting for him to stay either.

I've already sold my tickets up to the Chelsea game in December and not bought any CL games. Call it the Eriksen/Toby/Rose bug.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

And that's fair, but the question itself was patronizing, inferring that the only reason to not back Poch was a lack of cajones.

My answer for what it worth wasn't meant to be patronizing, it was in my opinion the logical answer was opposite to the solution offered.

Yeah. I can see what you're saying

It was just the 'real conversation' bit would rile some people.

And you can't have 'and in all likelihood' in a 'facts' list....but I'm being picky.

FWIW I think we're gonna see it play out...not my opinion...but looking at the decision makers in the process....I don't think they'd stomach the pay off or the risk of a change probably this season.

Of course Poch could walk and their hand would be forced. My opinion on that though is I think Poch and Levy are suitably close and respectful that this would have played out if it was on the cards.

 

[billyiddo]

Why would anyone want to?

- You are mixing up personal feelings/like for Poch with what is best for the club (I'm a Spurs fan, not a Poch fan).

Facts

- History shows exactly what happens to managers at this stage when they hit a bad run .. and it never "turns around"
- 2nd, the names people have indicated, i.e. Jose & Allegri are in all likelihood better managers than prime Poch.

This isn't about having balls, this is about having a real conversation of "is it even possible to turn this around" and btw, re your last point of "if Poch wants to be here", the fact we have to ask is a big part of the problem itself.

History, the situation all point to the best course of action being brave (having cajones) and making the right decision now, instead fo hobbling to the inevitable, costing us point and further damaging squad confidence.

Managers not being given the chance to turn it around does not mean that they cannot.

Pochettino has shown himself to be a good to great/exceptional manager over a 4-5 period and ibthink if given the time to find a solution he will do so

 

[Baleforce]

Indeed, 1 ginger bearded Spurs manager is enough for this century

View attachment 7405

not ginger, sun kissed, a whole different thing

 

[Pirate55]

Managers not being given the chance to turn it around does not mean that they cannot.

Pochettino has shown himself to be a good to great/exceptional manager over a 4-5 period and ibthink if given the time to find a solution he will do so

That is of course the big question. Can he, (and will he,) turn it round? I would certainly give him till Christmas to see if it is at least looking like it is going in the right direction. If not, we should afford a new coach the January transfer budget to begin to start getting his own team in place for the future.

 

[billyiddo]

That is of course the big question. Can he, (and will he,) turn it round? I would certainly give him till Christmas to see if it is at least looking like it is going in the right direction. If not, we should afford a new coach the January transfer budget to begin to start getting his own team in place for the future.

He gets the season at least from me

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

He gets the season at least from me

Even without any notable improvement or direction in performances?

 

[billyiddo]

Even without any notable improvement or direction in performances?

Unless we're threathened with relegation or full on squad mutiny yeah

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Unless we're threathened with relegation or full on squad mutiny yeah

Why?

 

[billyiddo]

Why?

Because i think our problems stem mostly from our player requirement these past 2-3 years, the manager stuck by us while being given players like nkoudou and njie to work with, or worse still no players at all, so now it's time to stick by him and give the chance to reinvigorate the squad now we can finally give him proper backing.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Because i think our problems stem mostly from our player requirement these past 2-3 years, the manager stuck by us while being given players like nkoudou and njie to work with, or worse still no players at all, so now it's time to stick by him and give the chance to reinvigorate the squad now we can finally give him proper backing.

Even if he shows no signs of actually improving things?

 

[billyiddo]

Even if he shows no signs of actually improving things?

I want to give him the chance to continue bringing in players over the next two windows then see where he goes with it - this summer we recruited well but it's only half the job that needed doing, unfair to judge him on a job where so much is up in the air with regards to the squad

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I want to give him the chance to continue bringing in players over the next two windows then see where he goes with it - this summer we recruited well but it's only half the job thet needed doing, unfair to judge him on a job where so much is up in the air with regards to the squad

Also unfair to judge him on how well he is doing with the players as it stands as well, apparently.

Im all for taking a long view, but there needs to be some substance to promote that faith, IMO.

The idea we cant judge how he is doing until he can neatly line up all his new players just doesnt sit well with me.

I dont understand that view at all, to be honest.

 

[billyiddo]

Also unfair to judge him on how well he is doing with the players as it stands as well, apparently.

Im all for taking a long view, but there needs to be some substance to promote that faith, IMO.

The idea we cant judge how he is doing until he can neatly line up all his new players just doesnt sit well with me.

I dont understand that view at all, to be honest.

We can judge how well he's doing sure and i agree he is not doing well at this point but i think there needs to be some understanding that maybe there are some chickens coming home to roost regarding our recruitment policy these past few years and to give him some slack off the back of it. We have been/we are asking him to compete at the top of the table with clubs that can spend and recruit like we did summer gone each and every year - this is the first we have done that and we still have a squad that has grown old and stale together - are there any top managers who have had to work under those circumstances and managed to maintain a high quality performance year in year out? I doubt it, no incoming transfers for 3 windows and prior to that a net spend of 0 over several years coupled with a squad that has far more players involved stretching back 3+ years than ANY side that it is competing with, most "top" managers would walk away from that.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

We can judge how well he's doing sure and i agree he is not doing well at this point but i think there needs to be some understanding that maybe there are some chickens coming home to roost regarding our recruitment policy these past few years and to give him some slack off the back of it. We have been/we are asking him to compete at the top of the table with clubs that can spend and recruit like we did summer gone each and every year - this is the first we have done that and we still have a squad that has grown old and stale together - are there any top managers who have had to work under those circumstances and managed to maintain a high quality performance year in year out? I doubt it, no incoming transfers for 3 windows and prior to that a net spend of 0 over several years coupled with a squad that has far more players involved stretching back 3+ years than ANY side that it is competing with, most "top" managers would walk away from that

Maybe.

Aside from all that though, I look at how its going and as you say - he is not doing well.

If I saw signs of him having a handle on things Id be much happier.

As it is, I dont. And Im not at all comfortable with just sticking under those circumstances. Yes, maybe he can recover. But, yes, maybe things will just deteriorate.

How do we know whether Poch is doing the right things, or if he is actually the issue?

Obviously one of those "time will tell" jobs, and mostly I trust Levy to make the right call. But all this "just give him time regardless" kind of speak just seems naive to me.

 

[billyiddo]

How do we know whether Poch is doing the right things, or if he is actually the issue?

We don't know one way or the other but we do know that Levy most likely has a good grasp of what is and what isn't the problem and he's not one to let a lame duck stick around too long so...