London Bridge and Borough terrorist incident

[AuroRaman]

Is this guys actions not just the same as people storming the Kensington Town Hall with their anger for the tower block fire?

I think it's different in that the former was an act of terror, I don't think the Town Hall incident can be described as the same.

 

[the dza]

Is this guys actions not just the same as people storming the Kensington Town Hall with their anger for the tower block fire?

If they tried to murder people, it's the same. If they didn't, it's not the same.

 

[Grays_1890]

...and beating up a volunteer.

For a country built on a stiff upper lip and an unflinching resolve, we've become pretty fudging good at building a mob mentality and jumping in two-footed.

Islam Kills, dont look back in anger, a fire kills with no known guilt as yet proven and its BE ANGRY, BE VERY ANGRY. And people causing issues in Kensington because things are not happening quick enough are saturating the Met Police time with their protests and riots and what happens is something happens and the Met Police are not on top of it? Oh its their fault. People like Lily Allen need shooting

 

[AuroRaman]

Islam Kills, dont look back in anger, a fire kills with no known guilt as yet proven and its BE ANGRY, BE VERY ANGRY. And people causing issues in Kensington because things are not happening quick enough are saturating the Met Police time with their protests and riots and what happens is something happens and the Met Police are not on top of it? Oh its their fault. People like Lily Allen need shooting

What an odd post.

 

[AuroRaman]

The Daily Fail headline on the terrorist attack in Finsbury Park mentions a van driving into people 'where hate cleric Abu Hamza once preached'. At least they're consistent.

 

[Grays_1890]

What an odd post.

Not really I just think we have a strange view to things.

There is no doubt a push for anger from the press and people in the UK related to the fire at Grenfell, people are being poked with a stick by the media, by those around them and by famous people, Lily Allen going there purposely looking to get people angry, to march all in the name of answers. And the point of view of being angry and fighting against the establishment is being backed in most part.

A group of people killed in the name of Islam and people are told, live and let live, these things happen, terrorism is part of living in a big city.

There is a major difference in attitude on both

 

[the dza]

Islam Kills, dont look back in anger, a fire kills with no known guilt as yet proven and its BE ANGRY, BE VERY ANGRY. And people causing issues in Kensington because things are not happening quick enough are saturating the Met Police time with their protests and riots and what happens is something happens and the Met Police are not on top of it? Oh its their fault. People like Lily Allen need shooting

I think people get very angry with the arseholes who commit the acts of murder, they just (rightly imo) say don't tar all Muslims with the same brush. And people are entitled to be angry about that building burning the way it did, because that is preventable and indeed, is supposed to be prevented by design. And they are entitled to be angry about the sh1tty response to the situation, something that has been acknowledged by the Prime Minister even.

 

[elltrev]

Is this guys actions not just the same as people storming the Kensington Town Hall with their anger for the tower block fire?

Come on mate...

These mosque-goers have no culpability for the London Bridge attack (like Kensington LA does have for the fire)

And no one was killed when the Town Hall was stormed, let alone purposefully

So no his actions were not just the same

 

[Grays_1890]

Come on mate...

These mosque-goers have no culpability for the London Bridge attack (like Kensington LA does have for the fire)

And no one was killed when the Town Hall was stormed, let alone purposefully

So no his actions were not just the same

Someone was beaten up at the town hall, was as much his fault of the fires as those at Finsbury Park Mosque which has a terrible track record for breeding hate.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think people get very angry with the arseholes who commit the acts of murder, they just (rightly imo) say don't tar all Muslims with the same brush. And people are entitled to be angry about that building burning the way it did, because that is preventable and indeed, is supposed to be prevented by design. And they are entitled to be angry about the sh1tty response to the situation, something that has been acknowledged by the Prime Minister even.

Everyone that works at Kensington Town Hall is not part of the problem either.

 

[AuroRaman]

Not really I just think we have a strange view to things.

There is no doubt a push for anger from the press and people in the UK related to the fire at Grenfell, people are being poked with a stick by the media, by those around them and by famous people, Lily Allen going there purposely looking to get people angry, to march all in the name of answers. And the point of view of being angry and fighting against the establishment is being backed in most part.

A group of people killed in the name of Islam and people are told, live and let live, these things happen, terrorism is part of living in a big city.

There is a major difference in attitude on both

Ok thanks for clarifying. It was more the conclusion to your comment that someone needed shooting that confused me alongside the rest of the post.

With regards to the live and let live comment, it works both ways. The press poke at people to say Islam = bad very much so as well. My Muslim friends are fearing for their safety at the moment, especially after a terror attack. These are human beings that just want to practice their religion in peace without fear of harm or without wanting to harm others. Notice I posted earlier in the thread about being a victim of hate speech. Not much was said in this thread because it doesn't really fit with a worrying narrative some posters are looking to push.

What were your thoughts on the attack in Finsbury Park?

 

[AuroRaman]

Someone was beaten up at the town hall, was as much his fault of the fires as those at Finsbury Park Mosque which has a terrible track record for breeding hate.

Ok I think you've set your stall out quite clearly now. Just so you're aware, the mosque in Finsbury Park came under new management which expelled hate clerics like Abu Hamza and his merry bunch of dingdongheads. Of course that's never been reported from memory...

 

[the dza]

Everyone that works at Kensington Town Hall is not part of the problem either.

Their families and friends were burnt alive, how about you cut them a bit of slack?

*edit -- and in response, they stormed into a building of an organisation that failed them. They did not kill anybody, so I honestly do not know what your angle is in trying to equate attempted murder with angry residents going into a building and someone getting punched.

 

[Grays_1890]

Ok thanks for clarifying. It was more the conclusion to your comment that someone needed shooting that confused me alongside the rest of the post.

With regards to the live and let live comment, it works both ways. The press poke at people to say Islam = bad very much so as well. My Muslim friends are fearing for their safety at the moment, especially after a terror attack. These are human beings that just want to practice their religion in peace without fear of harm or without wanting to harm others. Notice I posted earlier in the thread about being a victim of hate speech. Not much was said in this thread because it doesn't really fit with a worrying narrative some posters are looking to push.

What were your thoughts on the attack in Finsbury Park?

Its a hate crime and I don't condone it one bit

But I study human behavior and did so at a high level and qualified at university, so my post is a comparison of behavior and whats deemed acceptable and for what reasons.

I think alot of the hate and direction of hate based on the Grenfell tower is misplaced, Lily Allen I use as an example because she thinks she is part of the solution however she is part of the problem. Her actions cause issues and a added pressure to resources, which is ironic considering resources have been called into question alot in the last weeks.

My point is and I say in a provocative way because it raises debate is, if you step back and look at Terrorist Attacks and a domestic fire there is a totally different view to it and the reactions are totally different and I find that very interesting.

 

[elltrev]

Someone was beaten up at the town hall, was as much his fault of the fires as those at Finsbury Park Mosque which has a terrible track record for breeding hate.

I wasn't aware of that (I did check a news story to make sure I wasn't missing anything, but it didn't mention that).

I do understand the point you're trying to make, and agree with it to some extent, but don't think it's helping your case comparing the two directly when there are still clear differences.

 

[elltrev]

Its a hate crime and I don't condone it one bit

But I study human behavior and did so at a high level and qualified at university, so my post is a comparison of behavior and whats deemed acceptable and for what reasons.

I think alot of the hate and direction of hate based on the Grenfell tower is misplaced, Lily Allen I use as an example because she thinks she is part of the solution however she is part of the problem. Her actions cause issues and a added pressure to resources, which is ironic considering resources have been called into question alot in the last weeks.

My point is and I say in a provocative way because it raises debate is, if you step back and look at Terrorist Attacks and a domestic fire there is a totally different view to it and the reactions are totally different and I find that very interesting.

But I think by trying to say it in a provocative way, you're just missing out key details that make the situation different and so reduce the validity of your point.

A better comparison would be a random working class person purposefully killing a politician or civil servant from a random Local Authority in London.

Still, I agree that it wasn't right to beat someone up.

 

[AuroRaman]

Its a hate crime and I don't condone it one bit

But I study human behavior and did so at a high level and qualified at university, so my post is a comparison of behavior and whats deemed acceptable and for what reasons.

I think alot of the hate and direction of hate based on the Grenfell tower is misplaced, Lily Allen I use as an example because she thinks she is part of the solution however she is part of the problem. Her actions cause issues and a added pressure to resources, which is ironic considering resources have been called into question alot in the last weeks.

My point is and I say in a provocative way because it raises debate is, if you step back and look at Terrorist Attacks and a domestic fire there is a totally different view to it and the reactions are totally different and I find that very interesting.

I understand the point you are trying to make and indeed it is interesting to see how people react to various events and how the media plays it's part in this.

I have no issue with you bringing up points in what you feel may be provocative and I agree that it is healthy to raise debates, especially as we live in a culture that doesn't often 'allow' for such openness.

Do you notice thought that there is a difference between calling something a hate crime and a terrorist attack. Last night was a terrorist attack but the media were loathe to call it as such.

 

[elltrev]

I understand the point you are trying to make and indeed it is interesting to see how people react to various events and how the media plays it's part in this.

I have no issue with you bringing up points in what you feel may be provocative and I agree that it is healthy to raise debates, especially as we live in a culture that doesn't often 'allow' for such openness.

Do you notice thought that there is a difference between calling something a hate crime and a terrorist attack. Last night was a terrorist attack but the media were loathe to call it as such.

I do find that interesting. In fairness, I think there's a genuine case for it not to be labelled a terrorist attack. For me the arguable point is whether the London Bridge attack should be labelled a terrorist attack. Seems like the definition of terror now implicitly includes 'for religious aims', especially with ISIS knocking about and claiming every attack.

 

[Grays_1890]

I do find that interesting. In fairness, I think there's a genuine case for it not to be labelled a terrorist attack. For me the arguable point is whether the London Bridge attack should be labelled a terrorist attack. Seems like the definition of terror now implicitly includes 'for religious aims', especially with ISIS knocking about and claiming every attack.

IF the attack was religious or politically aimed is that Terrorist? Thats the definition right?

I think the Mosque is a hate crime because the guy did it through hate, or thats I see it, if he did it as an act of Christianity versus Islam I would def say Terrorism

 

[the dza]

IF the attack was religious or politically aimed is that Terrorist? Thats the definition right?

I think the Mosque is a hate crime because the guy did it through hate, or thats I see it, if he did it as an act of Christianity versus Islam I would def say Terrorism

If the aim was to terrorise Muslims in general, is it then Terrorism?