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Liam Payne's bust up with four Tottenham Hotspur players in nightclub

Dude he puts in a much better delivery than Lennon does. He played right wing on Tuesday and scored a goal. He should be in our box having goal scoring opportunities every week but he doesnt.
 
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Lennon's a good player. Should be better than what he shows on average and certainly capable of it. Very injury prone. But I absolutely love the guy at Spurs.
 
United article but relevant to the discussion

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/17/david-beckham-alex-ferguson-manchester-united

When Sir Alex Ferguson retired last week, the natural inclination was to celebrate his glorious years at Manchester United and Aberdeen. But Ferguson developed his managerial principles long before he won the European trophies that would make him famous.

His discipline and desire to run a club from top to bottom were evident while in charge of St Mirren in his mid-30s. One particular occasion – described fully and with great wit by Fraser Kirkwood in this month's edition of When Saturday Comes magazine – sums up Ferguson's managerial philosophy.

The year was 1977 and St Mirren were celebrating their centenary, so Ferguson invited Liverpool to Love Street. Bob Paisley duly obliged, bringing his European champions north of the border to play to a capacity crowd of 20,000 on a wintry December night.

The St Mirren players expected Paisley to put out a weakened team, but he did nothing of the sort. The Liverpool manager played his best 11, prompting Ferguson to go to work.

The young manager, still only 35 and with a team captained by a 20-year-old, told his players that this was their chance to make their names. They were playing a great team, but they too were great and now they had the opportunity to prove it. Inspired by that thought, Ferguson's men went out and battled their way to a 1-1 draw against the mighty Liverpool. Needless to say, St Mirren's equaliser was a late goal.

Ferguson manipulated his players into throwing everything they had into that friendly, as if a fine performance would fulfil their destinies. His powers of motivation are legendary – the half-time speech he delivered at the 1999 Champions League final is up there with Al Pacino's "game of inches" address in Any Given Sunday – but the bedrock to Ferguson's success has always been discipline.

When the two groups of players met for a meal in a local hotel after the match, only one set tucked into the free booze: the European champions. Ferguson's players were sworn off alcohol and his prying eyes were always watching over them.

Few managers in the late-1970s would have insisted their players remain teetotal after standing up to the best team in the continent, but Ferguson's standards were extraordinary. Those unwavering demands filtered through all of the teams he managed, no more so than the young squad that won the FA Youth Cup in 1992.

The emergence of Ferguson's so-called Fledglings is often credited to luck, or to the influence of Eric Cantona, but those players succeeded as they threw themselves into the challenge of meeting the standards demanded by their manager and his coaching staff. When David Beckham was asked on Thursday about how he wants to be remembered in his retirement, his answer was telling: "I just want people to see me as a hardworking footballer, someone that's passionate about the game, someone that – every time I stepped on the pitch – I've given everything that I have, because that's how I feel. That's how I look back on it and hope people will see me."

Beckham gave that quote to his old team-mate and Sky pundit Gary Neville, who is no stranger to hard graft. Neville's autobiography, Red, is an ode to the merits of discipline and hard work. He describes an ascetic youth dedicated entirely to the pursuit of footballing excellence. Neville always believed his contemporaries – Beckham, Paul Scholes and his younger brother Phil – were more natural footballers, so he worked harder and cut out anything that could hold him back.

"I was willing to ditch everything in my life apart from football and family," Neville wrote. "So much for my wild teenage years. If there was a game on Saturday, I was in bed by 9.15pm every Thursday and Friday night. I was a robot. I cast off all my mates from school, never saw them again. I decided, ruthlessly, that I was going to make friends with my new team-mates, who shared the same goals as me. As far as I was concerned the lives of athletes and non-athletes were incompatible. Between the ages of 16 and 20, I dropped women completely. They were always going to want to go to a cinema or a bar on a Friday night."

For most of us, this sounds maniacal. How many 19-year-olds deny themselves even the prospect of going on a date because a girl might "want to go to a cinema or a bar on a Friday night"? That's the whole point, Gary. And the later you stay out, the better. Neville and his mates only thought about one thing: football.

You only need to read the opening paragraph of Paul Scholes's autobiography, My Story to discover the love of his life: "I was always football daft. When I went to junior school, I would leave home half an hour early in the mornings and spend the time before the bell went for the first lesson kicking the ball around the schoolyard. Occasionally some mates would be involved, but often I was on my own and that didn't bother me in the slightest. I was happy as long as I had that ball."

Neither Neville nor Scholes produce exhilarating literature but, as documents on dedication go, they are up there with Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. In his book, Gladwell argues that greatness requires enormous time and drive. He picks out the example of the Beatles, who performed for over 10,000 hours in Hamburg between 1960 to 1964. Eric Harrison, the youth coach who led Neville, Beckham and Scholes to victory in the 1992 Youth Cup would relate to that idea. He never tired of telling his young men that "practice makes players".

Fergie's Fledglings owe as much to Harrison and Brian Kidd as they do to the outgoing United manager. In Andy Mitten's book of interviews with United players from the 1990s, Glory Glory, Nicky Butt explains how demanding Harrison could be on his young players. Butt tells the story of playing his first game for United, as a 15-year-old in the FA Youth Cup against Blackburn. He wanted to make a good impression, but in his enthusiasm he overplayed. Harrison was furious: "Eric gave me a roasting. He told me that I'd never play again. He asked me who the fudge I thought I was. He was right."

By the time Butt had learned his lesson – immediately – the issue was sorted. Harrison was there to instil in the player the discipline he needed to make it, like Ferguson had done with his sober St Mirren players in 1977 and has been doing for the past 39 years.

Ferguson will sit in the dug-out for the last time on Sunday, with Scholes and Beckham also stepping down as league champions. Only Ryan Giggs will remain from the group of boys who beat Crystal Palace in the Youth Cup final 21 years ago. Giggs will carry on influencing the younger players around him, but Ferguson, who has cherry-picked his successor, believes his club is in good hands.

At the Manchester United end-of-season awards earlier this week, Ferguson outlined why David Moyes is the right man for his job: "He's hard working and has integrity. He's got a work ethic about him and he's a serious football man. These are the qualities he's going to need." They were enough for Ferguson and his young players at St Mirren, Aberdeen and Manchester United.​


To me there a huge difference between the end of season or christmas party drinking pictures in this thread and the casual between game drinking. One is sanctioned and supposed to be team bonding exercise. The other is opportunism because they have the morning off. The question you have to ask is would Neville, Beckham or Scholes do it? Of course not.

To have a winning team we need players with the right attitude.

And with regard the don't believe the Mirror they're out to get us comments. This wasnt in the sports section, this was in the celebrity section and if the one direction kid wasn't involved .the whole thing wouldnt even be printed. The Mirror celebrity section dont give a brick about 4 tottenham players drinking, they're not out to get us and I cant see them trying to make up brick.
 
Yes the Mirror used sensational language in the article - but the fact that comes through is that 4 of our players were on the tinkle 4 days before a vital match. There is mountains of scientific evidence that drinking alcohol is very detrimental to top level athletes. Of course normal folks like us can work ok after going out on the tinkle but when you are paid unbelievable amounts of money (enough to spend 5 grand on a normal night out) to keep your body at it's peak of fitness, then you're taking the tinkle out of your employer by doing this. It is grossly unprofessional and you cannot make excuses for it.

What proof do you have of that?
 
United article but relevant to the discussion

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/17/david-beckham-alex-ferguson-manchester-united

When Sir Alex Ferguson retired last week, the natural inclination was to celebrate his glorious years at Manchester United and Aberdeen. But Ferguson developed his managerial principles long before he won the European trophies that would make him famous.

His discipline and desire to run a club from top to bottom were evident while in charge of St Mirren in his mid-30s. One particular occasion – described fully and with great wit by Fraser Kirkwood in this month's edition of When Saturday Comes magazine – sums up Ferguson's managerial philosophy.

The year was 1977 and St Mirren were celebrating their centenary, so Ferguson invited Liverpool to Love Street. Bob Paisley duly obliged, bringing his European champions north of the border to play to a capacity crowd of 20,000 on a wintry December night.

The St Mirren players expected Paisley to put out a weakened team, but he did nothing of the sort. The Liverpool manager played his best 11, prompting Ferguson to go to work.

The young manager, still only 35 and with a team captained by a 20-year-old, told his players that this was their chance to make their names. They were playing a great team, but they too were great and now they had the opportunity to prove it. Inspired by that thought, Ferguson's men went out and battled their way to a 1-1 draw against the mighty Liverpool. Needless to say, St Mirren's equaliser was a late goal.

Ferguson manipulated his players into throwing everything they had into that friendly, as if a fine performance would fulfil their destinies. His powers of motivation are legendary – the half-time speech he delivered at the 1999 Champions League final is up there with Al Pacino's "game of inches" address in Any Given Sunday – but the bedrock to Ferguson's success has always been discipline.

When the two groups of players met for a meal in a local hotel after the match, only one set tucked into the free booze: the European champions. Ferguson's players were sworn off alcohol and his prying eyes were always watching over them.

Few managers in the late-1970s would have insisted their players remain teetotal after standing up to the best team in the continent, but Ferguson's standards were extraordinary. Those unwavering demands filtered through all of the teams he managed, no more so than the young squad that won the FA Youth Cup in 1992.

The emergence of Ferguson's so-called Fledglings is often credited to luck, or to the influence of Eric Cantona, but those players succeeded as they threw themselves into the challenge of meeting the standards demanded by their manager and his coaching staff. When David Beckham was asked on Thursday about how he wants to be remembered in his retirement, his answer was telling: "I just want people to see me as a hardworking footballer, someone that's passionate about the game, someone that – every time I stepped on the pitch – I've given everything that I have, because that's how I feel. That's how I look back on it and hope people will see me."

Beckham gave that quote to his old team-mate and Sky pundit Gary Neville, who is no stranger to hard graft. Neville's autobiography, Red, is an ode to the merits of discipline and hard work. He describes an ascetic youth dedicated entirely to the pursuit of footballing excellence. Neville always believed his contemporaries – Beckham, Paul Scholes and his younger brother Phil – were more natural footballers, so he worked harder and cut out anything that could hold him back.

"I was willing to ditch everything in my life apart from football and family," Neville wrote. "So much for my wild teenage years. If there was a game on Saturday, I was in bed by 9.15pm every Thursday and Friday night. I was a robot. I cast off all my mates from school, never saw them again. I decided, ruthlessly, that I was going to make friends with my new team-mates, who shared the same goals as me. As far as I was concerned the lives of athletes and non-athletes were incompatible. Between the ages of 16 and 20, I dropped women completely. They were always going to want to go to a cinema or a bar on a Friday night."

For most of us, this sounds maniacal. How many 19-year-olds deny themselves even the prospect of going on a date because a girl might "want to go to a cinema or a bar on a Friday night"? That's the whole point, Gary. And the later you stay out, the better. Neville and his mates only thought about one thing: football.

You only need to read the opening paragraph of Paul Scholes's autobiography, My Story to discover the love of his life: "I was always football daft. When I went to junior school, I would leave home half an hour early in the mornings and spend the time before the bell went for the first lesson kicking the ball around the schoolyard. Occasionally some mates would be involved, but often I was on my own and that didn't bother me in the slightest. I was happy as long as I had that ball."

Neither Neville nor Scholes produce exhilarating literature but, as documents on dedication go, they are up there with Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. In his book, Gladwell argues that greatness requires enormous time and drive. He picks out the example of the Beatles, who performed for over 10,000 hours in Hamburg between 1960 to 1964. Eric Harrison, the youth coach who led Neville, Beckham and Scholes to victory in the 1992 Youth Cup would relate to that idea. He never tired of telling his young men that "practice makes players".

Fergie's Fledglings owe as much to Harrison and Brian Kidd as they do to the outgoing United manager. In Andy Mitten's book of interviews with United players from the 1990s, Glory Glory, Nicky Butt explains how demanding Harrison could be on his young players. Butt tells the story of playing his first game for United, as a 15-year-old in the FA Youth Cup against Blackburn. He wanted to make a good impression, but in his enthusiasm he overplayed. Harrison was furious: "Eric gave me a roasting. He told me that I'd never play again. He asked me who the fudge I thought I was. He was right."

By the time Butt had learned his lesson – immediately – the issue was sorted. Harrison was there to instil in the player the discipline he needed to make it, like Ferguson had done with his sober St Mirren players in 1977 and has been doing for the past 39 years.

Ferguson will sit in the dug-out for the last time on Sunday, with Scholes and Beckham also stepping down as league champions. Only Ryan Giggs will remain from the group of boys who beat Crystal Palace in the Youth Cup final 21 years ago. Giggs will carry on influencing the younger players around him, but Ferguson, who has cherry-picked his successor, believes his club is in good hands.

At the Manchester United end-of-season awards earlier this week, Ferguson outlined why David Moyes is the right man for his job: "He's hard working and has integrity. He's got a work ethic about him and he's a serious football man. These are the qualities he's going to need." They were enough for Ferguson and his young players at St Mirren, Aberdeen and Manchester United.​


To me there a huge difference between the end of season or christmas party drinking pictures in this thread and the casual between game drinking. One is sanctioned and supposed to be team bonding exercise. The other is opportunism because they have the morning off. The question you have to ask is would Neville, Beckham or Scholes do it? Of course not.

To have a winning team we need players with the right attitude.

And with regard the don't believe the Mirror they're out to get us comments. This wasnt in the sports section, this was in the celebrity section and if the one direction kid wasn't involved .the whole thing wouldnt even be printed. The Mirror celebrity section dont give a brick about 4 tottenham players drinking, they're not out to get us and I cant see them trying to make up brick.

That was a good read. Thanks.
 
Athletes drinking Vodka before a big game...

Do you know that they were drinking vodka?

Were you there?

Do you have pictorial evidence?

Do you have video evidence?

Even if they were drinking vodka, do you know how much?

Answer: no, no, no to each and every one of those questions.

Anyone who's going to come out with claims like "on the tinkle" needs to be able to back it up or shut up.
 
Do you know that they were drinking vodka?

Were you there?

Do you have pictorial evidence?

Do you have video evidence?

Even if they were drinking vodka, do you know how much?

Answer: no, no, no to each and every one of those questions.

Anyone who's going to come out with claims like "on the tinkle" needs to be able to back it up or shut up.

Its up to everyone to believe what they want. When you are drinking Vodka, theres a good chance you`re on the tinkle.
 
Its up to everyone to believe what they want. When you are drinking Vodka, theres a good chance you`re on the tinkle.

Once again - proof that they were drinking vodka?

You don't have it.

So why not stop squealing like a stuck pig about these players?

If they play like dog turd on Sunday, then have a pop at them.
 
I re-read the article and i'm convinced they weren't drinking.

The mirror carefully worded the story but somehow managed to sensationalise it. At no point does the article say they were drinking. It talks about serving Vodka to their table, thereby insinuating that they were drinking. If they were then why not just say so as it would add to their story about harassing the girl.

I can imagine the journalist desperate for a story asking the 'friend', 'were they drinking?', 'did you see them drinking?' 'no, but there was loads of vodka on their table'
 
Its up to everyone to believe what they want. When you are drinking Vodka, theres a good chance you`re on the tinkle.

Who said that anyone can't believe what they want to believe?

But if those beliefs are stated on here, especially if they are presented as some kind of fact then you should expect those of us who prefer to believe in things based on evidence instead of guesswork, speculation and gut feelings to ask questions about the rational basis behind that belief.
 
I re-read the article and i'm convinced they weren't drinking.

The mirror carefully worded the story but somehow managed to sensationalise it. At no point does the article say they were drinking. It talks about serving Vodka to their table, thereby insinuating that they were drinking. If they were then why not just say so as it would add to their story about harassing the girl.

I can imagine the journalist desperate for a story asking the 'friend', 'were they drinking?', 'did you see them drinking?' 'no, but there was loads of vodka on their table'

I think this is a good point, if they were drinking then the newspaper could have found out about it and it would have made their story better if they were able to print that directly instead of just their insinuations.
 
The journo writing the story is supposed to be a spurs fan. That's the only reason she recognised the players no doubt.
Why would she make up the story or lie?
 
Lennon has seven assists. Out of our forward three in a 4-2-3-1 he has been the most disappointing though. Dempsey has seven goals and six assists, Siggy has three goals and five assists. And both of them have played 2/3's of the time Lennon has played, in various different positions that are not always their best, whilst Lennon has always been utilised on the wing. I've left Bale out for obvious reasons.


It's not that he's crap. It's that bar Ade (who has had an utterly brick season) he has been our worst forward player in my eyes too.

That's a fair opinion, I think Sig has been way more inconsistent than Lennon. Dempsey and Sig have probably been better in the last month or so, but the season overall I think Lennon has been the better and more important player.

You can't directly compare the stats like that either, Sig takes set pieces, you would expect him to get a couple of assists extra per season just for that. Both Sig and Dempsey have played more centrally, and also played in a role where they have cut inside from the left. Lennon has a different role in our team. Very few outright wingers in the PL have more assists than Lennon this season.
 
To me there a huge difference between the end of season or christmas party drinking pictures in this thread and the casual between game drinking. One is sanctioned and supposed to be team bonding exercise. The other is opportunism because they have the morning off. The question you have to ask is would Neville, Beckham or Scholes do it? Of course not.

To have a winning team we need players with the right attitude.

And with regard the don't believe the Mirror they're out to get us comments. This wasnt in the sports section, this was in the celebrity section and if the one direction kid wasn't involved .the whole thing wouldnt even be printed. The Mirror celebrity section dont give a brick about 4 tottenham players drinking, they're not out to get us and I cant see them trying to make up brick.

What a load of bollox.. In this thread its about black or white.. drink or no drink. The occasion don't mean your given special licence on whether you should or shouldn't drink. PMSL

I will take your theory that the players were out celebrating something like a birthday.. as apposed to Jesus Christ.
 
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To me there a huge difference between the end of season or christmas party drinking pictures in this thread and the casual between game drinking. One is sanctioned and supposed to be team bonding exercise. The other is opportunism because they have the morning off. The question you have to ask is would Neville, Beckham or Scholes do it? Of course not.

To have a winning team we need players with the right attitude.

And with regard the don't believe the Mirror they're out to get us comments. This wasnt in the sports section, this was in the celebrity section and if the one direction kid wasn't involved .the whole thing wouldnt even be printed. The Mirror celebrity section dont give a brick about 4 tottenham players drinking, they're not out to get us and I cant see them trying to make up brick.

Are you claiming to not only know what happened on the night, what they drank and how much, but also what the internal club policies on alcohol consumption are?

How do you know that what they didn't wasn't allowed within the club regulations?
 
That's a fair opinion, I think Sig has been way more inconsistent than Lennon. Dempsey and Sig have probably been better in the last month or so, but the season overall I think Lennon has been the better and more important player.

You can't directly compare the stats like that either, Sig takes set pieces, you would expect him to get a couple of assists extra per season just for that. Both Sig and Dempsey have played more centrally, and also played in a role where they have cut inside from the left. Lennon has a different role in our team. Very few outright wingers in the PL have more assists than Lennon this season.


I know you can't directly compare stats, but it's the simplest thing to resort to when someone says 'He's played well, he has X assists and X goals'.


I'm not sure what different role Lennon has. To keep the width? He hasn't done that much running down the wing in my opinion this season, he has come inside far more than in previous years.


My view he is the worst player bar Ade isn't just based on stats, it's based on watching him. People can't seem to defend him very well either.

'He does a lot of work defensively', But he's a right winger not a right back, he should be contributing more going forwards.

'He takes a six or seven games to get back to his best', if anything that's just hammering in the point that he's not going to be good enough going forward. We can't afford to give him those games to get back to his best when every point is valuable.

'He's spurs through and through', so he's been here a number of years, that's not relevant to whether he is currently good enough or not.

'We look crap when he's injured', which that means is that the backup options for him are dire. Bale is a far better player and we manage to cope pretty well offensively when he is injured because we have other players who can play as an AM.


As a squad option, sure keep him around. It might be useful having a defensive minded winger to play against some of the more offensive minded full backs. However against the smaller teams, which is what will get you much higher up the table, you need players who will contribute far more offensively and to leave the defensive work to the back five.
 
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