milo
Jack L. Jones
Very different appointments and very different track records. I can only speak for myself but I think that I did try to give Sherwood the benefit of the doubt but it was obvious reasonably early that he was in over his head.
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Jose Mourinho - SACKED
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
Very different appointments and very different track records. I can only speak for myself but I think that I did try to give Sherwood the benefit of the doubt but it was obvious reasonably early that he was in over his head.
This is fair.
My question would be;
Was Jose appointed as a short term fix to turn around form, and in the process not expect any action in the transfer market?
Or were Poch’s warnings about the squad taken seriously and the board have appointed Jose to oversee the painful rebuild, but in the process have told him not to expect transfers until the end of the season?
Or is there another option, maybe a blended version of the above 2. Part 1....steady the ship. If that goes well, part 2 will be to make transfers and build your own team (in the close season).
I’d love to know what the gameplan is for the board. With Jose’s comments about no transfers in Jan window, it’s pretty clear they’ve tipped him off that nothing will be going on soon - therefore a painful 2nd half of the season.
We’ve got unfit players, players not trying, players that don’t want to be here, players out of form, players showing ill discipline. Is this the so called new manager bounce?
Granted we turned over West Ham, Burnley and Bournemouth. West Ham fired their manager. Bournemouth are in free fall. Both of those almost came back and drew. Burnley was a decent win. We were fortunate against Wolves, and maybe Brighton. I don’t think we’ve played well since the Burnley game. Shocking against Utd, shocking against Chelsea. Poor against Norwich and Southampton. Absolutely nothing has changed from Poch’s time imo.
I just watched Arsenal, that is a legitimate new manager bounce, 2 decent displays against Chelsea and Utd (unlucky to lose to Chelsea). Players know the mandate and have upped their game, the manager is expected to be there for a fair time. Compare that to us and I have no idea what the plan is for Jose/us.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Completely agree with all of this. The Arsenal point is a great one. Clear plan, you can see the improvement immediately. All of this needing transfer windows is fine but Arteta didn’t need any time to come in and implement some basic principles. In the same way that Poch didn’t need much time after coming in at Saints to get them playing his way. Rodgers barely needed any time to
improve upon Puel’s style at Leicester. Yes results will take time to follow but you can at least see the boost. With Jose, the only change has been the massive uptick in long balls - every other issue remains from Poch’s time. He showed some innovation in his first games for us but that seems to have gone.
I want Jose to succeed because that will mean we haven’t wasted the season. And right now we’ve got some wins under him, the Burnley game was good but we had the Palace 4-0 under Poch. For the win over Brighton read the win over Villa. Nothing has really changed. It shows the issues weren’t on Poch, but actually the issues he warned us about. If José can paper over those issues for this season and help us achieve something, then great. I’ll be delighted. But if he doesn’t, it will be a gamble that failed. I don’t think Poch would have relegated us, and we are traditionally good in November and December under him, so I was expecting form to improve anyway. Certainly like to the extent that it did under Jose was possible for sure.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I doubt Jose has really changed in any way...the booking today probably shows that.
I think it's clear things had reached a point of no return with Poch, but i think it's also clear to me thus far that Jose has not changed and is still a coach whose methods have been overtaken. He is yesterday's man and is getting outcoached by more and more of our opponent's coaches.
The GHod thing about this is to save his ailing rep he will start throwing a few more people under the bus. It;s started with Tanguy and will eventually be Levy (i suspect we wont do much business this January, if any at all).
The difference between him, Poch and the others before him is that apart from Redknapp, he will have a lot of 'sources' to release his side of things to the media (especially if Levy does his usual faffing around re signings). So we will get top know in much fuller detail how ambitious (or not) our board really are...
I think it's clear things had reached a point of no return with Poch, but i think it's also clear to me thus far that Jose has not changed and is still a coach whose methods have been overtaken. He is yesterday's man and is getting outcoached by more and more of our opponent's coaches.
The GHod thing about this is to save his ailing rep he will start throwing a few more people under the bus. It;s started with Tanguy and will eventually be Levy (i suspect we wont do much business this January, if any at all).
The difference between him, Poch and the others before him is that apart from Redknapp, he will have a lot of 'sources' to release his side of things to the media (especially if Levy does his usual faffing around re signings). So we will get top know in much fuller detail how ambitious (or not) our board really are...
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
We need strong management from a strong head coach. I was optimistic that JM could deliver better performances from the existing squad with just a "few tweaks" ( his words) . I was at the Burnkey game and came away hopeful that we had indeed turned a corner. However since then his selections and tactics have been as bizarre as Poch's this season. I think he now needs to settle on a preferred team and game plan and get the players properly prepared and coached in it. And discard the wasters and wantaways.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Let’s judge arsenal after 10 games and some away ones which have been their Achilles heel
And then again, maybe judge a coach on a season and a couple of windows at least
Fans react so quickly to everything now and expect an immediate fix... it’s never ever gonna happen and be sustained
Brendan gets quoted and his record was very similar to Maureens at this point. He didn’t even take his team on tour in the summer as he wanted them coached and drilled for this season. That’s clever and actually innovative. It’s all not gonna work this summer with yet another tournament which will have a big chunk of his players and of course ours
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Look, I want Jose to succeed. All I’m saying is I’m not particularly on board with ‘he needs a couple of windows’ for José because the reason he was hired was so we don’t lose a season. If he succeeds in that task, I’ll praise Levy to the hilt for making the tough move when I know I wouldn’t have had the balls to do it in his position. If it fails, and we end up with no trophy or top 4, questions should rightfully be asked.
If José was hired to build us up over a mid term period then absolutely, give him transfer windows, give him money, and give him time to implement a style and a mentality shift. But he joined knowing what he needed to do. He joined and got this job on the belief he has in the squad as it was, and that it was underperforming. We sacked a good man and a great Manager to bring José in, so it needs to work. Otherwise if it’s a mid table finish / Europa football under Jose, we may as well have kept Poch and backed the man who told us 2 years ago these problems would happen and we needed to rebuild.
I want Jose to succeed for sure. But he’s not a project manager. He’s not the one that asks for patience. He’s the one that gets jobs based on his record of success over a short time period. He needs to do it here, if not we may as well have kept faith with a guy who is a project manager and always thought long term.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
We've now become a team that was at times accused of over passing it, to one that cannot string three passes together.
Also to the Arsenal point made by @Benny_Lad, on the clear mandate given to the players by Arteta..He's come in and in his first press conference, demanded from his players that they play for the shirt and to back their team mates - the two essential ingredients of playing a team sport!... I saw one of their young substitutes step onto the pitch and with his first touch played a poor pass that went out of play, but then I see David Luiz shouting out encouragement to that same young player and also applauding him..
Positive communication by our players such as when defending set pieces, words of encouragement, etc etc.. is almost non existent. All communication is virtually non existent except for when venting disapproval!..
Plenty of our players simply don't care.
Also to the Arsenal point made by @Benny_Lad, on the clear mandate given to the players by Arteta..He's come in and in his first press conference, demanded from his players that they play for the shirt and to back their team mates - the two essential ingredients of playing a team sport!... I saw one of their young substitutes step onto the pitch and with his first touch played a poor pass that went out of play, but then I see David Luiz shouting out encouragement to that same young player and also applauding him..
Positive communication by our players such as when defending set pieces, words of encouragement, etc etc.. is almost non existent. All communication is virtually non existent except for when venting disapproval!..
Plenty of our players simply don't care.
Bedfordspurs
Arthur Rowe
Where was it declared what the plan was for Jose to be successful?
Personally I saw it as getting him in early so he gets the jan window to start the transition needed as the club knew by then that Poch was broken
This way Mou gets 7 months with the squad before the end of the season (which then has a tournament to fudge up all top players)
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
It’s getting late, so perhaps I’ll be able to dig out some of the articles tomorrow, but any journo connected with the club, particularly The Athletic guys if I’m recalling correctly, wrote about the fact that Levy didn’t want to have a lost season, when it came to naming rights, future CL money, continued view of momentum from the club etc etc, which is why it meant hiring José. And José knew this coming in, called it a top 3 squad, said Levy agreed.
I don’t think the reason for hiring José was that Poch was broken. I think if we showed Poch that we still supported him and agreed with his assessment that we needed a rebuild, Poch would still be here and be enthusiastically working through what needs to be done. I would wager that either Levy thought the players were too good to be playing the way they were domestically and still had more to give, and / or we didn’t want to spend the money to do the type of rebuild Poch wanted. And I’d wager Toby signing a new contract was a vindication of the idea of getting Poch out, and getting José in, because it was an example of these players not necessarily being at the end of the road, and still having some life at our club.
So the Toby signing is a great bit of business for us, we can say how great it is we’ve signed one of the best defenders in Europe until the end of his best years. But it has to transform into results. If ultimately Jose needs signings and a couple of windows, that’s exactly what Poch was asking for anyway. We need to not lose this season for it to have been worthwhile.
Poch was only ‘broken’ when it became clear he and Levy disagreed with the strategy of the club when for the first 3/4 years of his time here they bang on the same page together. When your job becomes about internal battles as much as executing the work, clearly something has to give. Levy is the owner, he was going to win out. And if his decision is backed up with results, he will deserve all the praise in the world. If it fails, I think it is fair he faces the criticism that he got to a fork in the road and he went down the wrong path.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Your last paragraph says it all for me. Agree wholeheartedly.
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
I think you’re so buried in this “some cannot stop tossing over Poch” thing that you’re missing the points being made. The main one being we ALL think Mourinho should be given time, the point is Levy needs to give him what HE wants or else he will find a way to leave. And some of us do certainly doubt that Levy doesn’t believe he can “tame” Mourinho.
As for this ‘we’d have been relegated with Poch’ guff, purleaze!!!!!! Cobblers. I’ll make you a deal; I’ll stop tossing off to him every 6 hours if you stop making such ludicrous assertions!
Really i don’t think that’s quiet true
The truth is the truth and let’s be fair the Ndomdele situation is a joke and a pretty pathetic one at that.
Someone needs to be shot for signing that half breed
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Where did you get this fantasy from?
Mourinho said when he came in that he likes the squad and he doesn't need to buy. He's said it multiple times.
He indicated multiple times that no one is coming in January.
On one of the Twitter links posted earlier in this thread there was a post saying that since Mourinho took over as spurs manager he has won the second most premier league points behind Liverpool.
Is that true ?
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Is that true ?
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think the first thing that we should establish is that this isn't a black and white issue. There aren't goodies and baddies, there are a range of people trying to do difficult jobs under difficult circumstances and all of them have got things wrong.
I would be amazed if we brought Mourinho in for a short term bounce. I think that we probably viewed it as a two to three year appointment and recognised that meant changes in the squad.
I'm not bothered about Arsenal winning a game. They've got an even bigger job to do than us and they have appointed a rookie.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I think that it was third but that was before the latest round of fixtures.
Sandman
Dean Austin
Lets be really honest here. Yesterdays game was terrible. There was not one thing about the game that you could take any comfort from. But since Jose has taken over we have had some games, maybe not the whole 90 mins but big parts of games where we have looked like a team again. The question is, was that just the new Manager bump that we got, or was is that going to be more of the norm than what was seen before.
Dele seemed to change his game after Jose Came back in, knuckled down, was working harder and doing the simple things right. Against Brighton and Soton he was back to his worst, losing the ball all over the pitch, look lackluster when he had it and trying a lot of flicks that never came off. Yesterday watching Dele got me so frustrated. Lazy passes, lazy movement. Without him or a fully functional Eriksen, and with Son suspended we just look uncomfortable in attack. And we need our attack because we cannot keep a clean sheet for anything, no matter what formation we play.
It was a hard game to watch. We looked bad all over. We also KEEP conceeding the first goal. A very big problem for us.
Dele seemed to change his game after Jose Came back in, knuckled down, was working harder and doing the simple things right. Against Brighton and Soton he was back to his worst, losing the ball all over the pitch, look lackluster when he had it and trying a lot of flicks that never came off. Yesterday watching Dele got me so frustrated. Lazy passes, lazy movement. Without him or a fully functional Eriksen, and with Son suspended we just look uncomfortable in attack. And we need our attack because we cannot keep a clean sheet for anything, no matter what formation we play.
It was a hard game to watch. We looked bad all over. We also KEEP conceeding the first goal. A very big problem for us.
Hashegotthesackyet?
Alan Hutton
Poch has gone and it’s pointless that people insist that we now measure Jose using exactly the same parameters or conditions of what Poch and his fate was judged on, particularly for Levy. Eg, Poch didn’t have a load of money to spend, the squad got jaded/tired and the this was a contributing factor to his and the teams poor run. If Levy accepts that Jose needs to spend to get us out of this rut, let’s be thankful if it happens. I guess my point is it’s not about being “right”, including this forum, it’s about getting out of the mess we’re in, and if the parameters need too change for this to happen, let’s be thankful for a change in direction (fingers crossed) then insist that Jose also needs to work with his hands tied.