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Jimmy Carr tax dodger

Now this I like. Though again, how easy would it be to enforce for someone moving country? So say I decide to move to NZ 2 years after finishing my degree, how would the government know if I decided to keep it from them?

As I said, I agree with the principle 100%. I'm just not sure how realistic it would be in practice.

It is easy. All medics are put through employment by the Deanery and all health organisations carry out stringent pre employment checks. Even abroad they will contact the GMC and other member organisations to get certification that the person is a medic. Thats one way of knowing if that person has just fudged off out of the country. Also I think on an annual basis medics have to sign up to something.

Another surely is through government records etc - people will know, ways of finding out and ultimately the GMC will know.

Or you could make it into the rules that if someone leaves the country without notifying the GMC or the government etc then they will be stripped off of their occupation.

Loads of companies use this method to ensure that they reap what they sowed.
 
No. That is completely wrong. There isn't a fund like a normal pension. Every penny of retired doctors pensions today is funded out of general taxation today. Just like your national insurance payments don't go into a fund for your pension.

Blimey, people really don't know how brick works in this country do they? :)

So you mean that 14.5% they take out of pay just stays in normal government coffers and presumably their match is just the same bogus amount?

Unbelieveable, it would be a short term hit but why dont they move to a fund basis and actually take the money out each month and invest if. Obviously this would be a large cost initially but its still worth looking at even if they phase it and say do 10% initially etc. Heck they could even buy govt bonds with the money.
 
Yes, they simply pay a % of their salary to cover those employees that are retired.

No investment is made with the cash.

When you factor in the massive pay rises introduced by Labour, it means the tax payer ultimately pays 100% for these diamond encrusted pension schemes.
 
So you mean that 14.5% they take out of pay just stays in normal government coffers and presumably their match is just the same bogus amount?

Unbelieveable, it would be a short term hit but why dont they move to a fund basis and actually take the money out each month and invest if. Obviously this would be a large cost initially but its still worth looking at even if they phase it and say do 10% initially etc. Heck they could even buy govt bonds with the money.

That's basically it.

As I said, let them all go private and see how much their funds are worth.

They then turn the argument from 'these are affordable' to 'the pension is an integral part of our remuneration' when they are on ?100k a year.

gonad*s.

Another group of public sector workers who need to take their heads out of their arses. This off the back of a free education for many of them worth ?500k!!
 
A common phase mentioned here, and in the papers and news, is that what Carr was doing was not illegal but it was immoral. Well perhaps if the tax collected was spent more morally, more people may feel more inclined to pay their share. I am thinking of unjustifiable wars and mps illegally claiming expenses.
 
A common phase mentioned here, and in the papers and news, is that what Carr was doing was not illegal but it was immoral. Well perhaps if the tax collected was spent more morally, more people may feel more inclined to pay their share. I am thinking of unjustifiable wars and mps illegally claiming expenses.

I can see the point. But we cannot decide on what taxes we pay depending on whether we like the way the government spends our taxes!!

A third of the spending is on Social Security.......hmmm, maybe I don't want to pay for the feckless, (amongst worthwhile spending on pensions and disability allowance).

Maybe lefties get a rebate on teh defence budget?

Don't have any kids? 10% rebate on education you don't use.

Private Healthcare? 20% rebate on the NHS spending you don't use.

Where does it end?

The bottom line is the government spends ?11k per capita on services for us, most people are getting far more out than they pay in.
 
I can see the point. But we cannot decide on what taxes we pay depending on whether we like the way the government spends our taxes!!

A third of the spending is on Social Security.......hmmm, maybe I don't want to pay for the feckless, (amongst worthwhile spending on pensions and disability allowance).

Maybe lefties get a rebate on teh defence budget?

Don't have any kids? 10% rebate on education you don't use.

Private Healthcare? 20% rebate on the NHS spending you don't use.

Where does it end?

The bottom line is the government spends ?11k per capita on services for us, most people are getting far more out than they pay in.

I agree with so much of what you say on political matters.

I have always felt that people in Private healthcare should have some of the costs paid for by the state. For eample if someone was waiting for a hip replacement and it cost ?10,000 but they could only afford to give ?5,000 in a private clinic then the state pay the other ?5,000 think it would be a good way of saving money for the NHS.

I had some health problems this year and had to change my views on the NHS as they were so much better then BUPA. It was a humbling eperince for me as i found the NHS to be rather good, i was suprised by it.
 
I'm not interested in the other points, they aren't related to what southstand said and aren't relevant to this particular discussion. But the 'general' taxpayer does not contribute 80% of a doctor's final pension.

I think there needs to be reform of the pensions scheme, though not in the manner the government is suggesting.

The government also needs to tread carefully here. People on this board especially love pulling out the line about how we can't tax the super rich too highly or punish the banks/bankers for their role in our current mess because then they'll all leave us and we'll become a backwater etc etc.

This is actually happening with medical students and junior doctors. The changes in the NHS, pensions scheme, EWTD etc is causing a large number of these to seriously consider working abroad instead of staying at home. Which would be a terrible shame.



Finally, I find the attitude of 'everyone who has the ability to do this would' quite disturbing. Like Leeds, my wife and I could also similarly reduce the amount of tax we pay but we don't. Morally, for us, its wrong. Stop judging everyone one by your own low standards.

Spot on, i could do a lot of cash in hand, i will not lie i did the odd bit in the past. But the reason i do not know and never did that much is because i always got told you pay your way in this world. Not paying tax is like stealing, yeah when i have been on holiday i would take the shower stuff from the hotel bathroom but i would never break into someones house and steal there telly. That is what not paying your tax is like in my opinon.
 
I agree with so much of what you say on political matters.

I have always felt that people in Private healthcare should have some of the costs paid for by the state. For eample if someone was waiting for a hip replacement and it cost ?10,000 but they could only afford to give ?5,000 in a private clinic then the state pay the other ?5,000 think it would be a good way of saving money for the NHS.

I had some health problems this year and had to change my views on the NHS as they were so much better then BUPA. It was a humbling eperince for me as i found the NHS to be rather good, i was suprised by it.


But then the govt are paying for private companies to profit surely and ?5,000 is a fair amount to pay for a hip replacement.
 
I can see the point. But we cannot decide on what taxes we pay depending on whether we like the way the government spends our taxes!!

Yes we bloody well can! The government is there to serve the people. The public are the ones keeping the wheel turning in society. People have come too accustom to do what they are told and to accept what they instructed when all this means is the ones working hard have to pull their weight even more to fill the shortfall elsewhere.

The benefits system is one of (if not the biggest) cost to the taxpayer and a large portion of it is nothing but a joke (no offence to the legitimate claimers as I'm more than happy my money is helping you).

I'm sick and tired of these macarons out there who make bad choices in life and it's left to others to pick up the pieces and fit the bill.

From leaving school many years ago there were already three women pregnant (one with her second kid) from a fella who did a runner when he first got her pregnant yet she accepted him back after nearly a year and now the same thing has happened with this second kid, him being nowhere to be found. Meanwhile she is living in a newly done up council flat talking on FB all day about her kids while she does fudge all in helping our society.

Why should we pay for their bad choices? fudge the lot of them. Majority are unintelligent macarons who believe this country has an unlimited fund of cash while not having the slightest idea of where it all comes from.
 
Of course you are right. But we make decisions based on election manifestos.

Just watched th BBC news. Depressingly one sided reporting of Cameron 'taking our benefits away' and bleating on about the rich!!!

Bottom line is you can control the money going out easier than you can collect the taxes. And even if there was zero avoidance we'd still have a monster deficit!!!
 
Of course you are right. But we make decisions based on election manifestos.

Just watched th BBC news. Depressingly predictable reporting of Cameron 'taking our benefits away' and bleating on about the rich!!!

Bottom line is you can control the money going out easier than you can collect the taxes. And even if there was zero avoidance we'd still have a monster deficit!!!

Fixed.
 
If you live on welfare, should your life be nice?

The big problem with the benefits debate is that neither Left nor Right dares to say what it really thinks

?Why do they call it the ?welfare state??? Ali G once asked Tony Benn. ?Is it because it is well fair??

Ignoring for a moment the way that one of these people is a comedy character you?re only supposed to laugh at (the other, of course, being the bloke who found subsequent fame in Borat), this was a very knowing way of making a deeply partisan point.

?Well fair? is better than fair. Which, of course, isn?t fair at all.

This is also what David Cameron thinks. And, as he made plain in his speech at Bluewater yesterday, it?s what he thinks lots of other people would think, too, if only they were honest. The trouble is, hardly anybody ever is honest about welfare. Even Mr Cameron wasn?t quite, while urging everybody else to be.

?A culture of entitlement?, he said, ?has led to huge resentment among those who pay into the system.? As though he was unbothered personally. ?I?ll tell you who resents this,? he could have said. ?I do. Me.?

Cowardly dissembling is the norm on welfare, to the extent that politicians only really discuss it via buzzwords that quietly mean suitably different things to suitably different people. The Left thinks the word ?scrounger?, but never says it, for fear of sounding as if it agrees with the people on the right who say it all the time, but often about those whom the Left believes to be ?hard-working? but who just require ?a little extra help?. The Right reckons that these people can?t possibly be that ?hard-working? if they require extra help, because if they were, they wouldn?t. Unless they?re a business.

On that side of the spectrum, this ?hard-working? status starts shortly before you are able to buy your own house, by which point, as far as the Left is concerned, you lost that status so long ago that you have virtually become the Prince Regent out of Blackadder.

And GHod alone knows who the ?middle? are. Putting disability benefit and pensions to one side, the UK welfare bill is about ?84 billion. Or, if it helps you to visualise it, roughly the amount that Jimmy Carr would earn in 21,000 years. Isn?t this something worth discussing a bit more clearly? What, exactly, are we buying?

According to Mr Cameron, ?the time has come to go back to first principles; to have a real national debate and ask some fundamental searching questions about working-age welfare?. He?s right, but he?s not quite taking his own advice. In yesterday?s speech he kept comparing those who work with those who don?t; the working couple on ?24k, the jobless family on ?27k. It wasn?t fair, he kept saying, that working pays less.

He?s not wrong, in my view, but he?s also not being quite honest in claiming that?s where his principles start. The Tories keep saying ?work must pay? and it?s a ruse. It?s not the differential that bothers them entirely. It?s the concept. It?s not that you can live more comfortably off the State than you can by working, but the idea that you can live comfortably off the State at all.

The Left will never understand how much this concept appals the Right, and the Right will often not let on, because it doesn?t want to sound like somebody with a talk show on Fox News. But that?s a first principle right there. Even on a more mundane level, for those who have lived lives mercifully free of such interaction, the very concept of state help can seem baffling. I spent at least half of my first two years in London unemployed and living on biscuits. The thought that this might have been somebody else?s problem never really occurred to me.

If I?m honest, the true scale of the State?s largesse didn?t properly kick me until about a year ago, when I went to look around the primary school where I plan to send my daughters. ?But it?s wonderful here,? I kept thinking stupidly. ?Surely I have to pay something??

Free education is a given across our political spectrum, much like free healthcare. Welfare is different. Very few people would argue that the welfare state should not be a safety net, scooping people up before they crash into rock bottom. But should it go any farther? Making life not just survivable but tolerable? For much of the public, I suspect, first principles quite vehemently say not.

My own first principles are a little softer, I think, although I do worry that, as with most of my political beliefs, this is just down to kneejerk compassion, guilt and a desire for people to like me.

It?s hard, though, to triangulate. What does the British Left have to say about today?s welfare state? Not much. And sooner or later, it?s going to have to say something.

On the BBC Today programme yesterday Liam Byrne, the normally credible Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, was twisting like a worm on a hook. Did Labour want to cut welfare? He couldn?t say. Did Labour oppose cuts to welfare? He couldn?t say that either. In the end, he started bleating that housing benefit costs had risen because the economy was suffering. So what, Liam? What if it wasn?t? Housing benefit has been capped at ?20,800. Is that enough or isn?t it?

This is where you need first principles. Like I said, I?ve never lived on benefits, but I doubt it?s terribly pleasant. The crucial question, though, is whether it ought to be.

Does Ed Miliband believe that a life supported by the State should be as nice as the life lived by people for whom the State doesn?t have to bother? And if not, and he believes it should be a bit less nice, then how much less nice? Half as nice? A quarter less nice? Or does he believe that it should be exactly as nice as the State can afford? Pretty wonderful, that, in boom time. Not now. I think you would be paying in.

It?s not a right-wing point, today, that the welfare bill needs to go down. As Mr Byrne said himself: ?There?s no money left.? Even if there was, though, Mr Cameron is broadly right. We?ve lost track of the compact between people and State; the distinctions between what we are owed, what we get and what we decide, in our compassionate largesse, to give. Before we decide what we are doing with welfare, we need to remind ourselves why we are doing it.
 
1 nice life on welfare = 1 vote for Labour

Labour will NEVER tackle the welfare state, because they know this better than anybody
 
But then the govt are paying for private companies to profit surely and ?5,000 is a fair amount to pay for a hip replacement.

I would not think a private company making a private was a bad thing if it cost the public purse less. I give as an eample the hip replacement operation, i have no idea how much one of those things cost. But if an old lady rather then wait for one on the NHS decided to go private but could only afford half the fee i would have thought that if the government could pay the other half the government would in theory be saving half the amount of the cost of the operation that could be put to good use elsewhere.

Would you just be opposed to a private company making a profit on money from the state even if it meant that we as a country saved money in the long term?

Got to say that i really was suprised by how good the NHS were with me December last year onwards when i had some minor health problems.
 
Well generally I would expect operations to cost more privately because the surgeon and anaestatist for a start will cost more. You will most likely have a private room after which costs more than a ward and BUPA or whoever also need to make some cash on top of that.

I'm not against such a thing happening as long as there is some saving to the NHS that can easily be demonstrated, for that to happen you would most likely need large scale examples of these so they can say we had 10,000 hip replacements which saved us 5 million etc otherwise it will just turn into the guardian moaning that private companies are being paid for operations that the NHS cant handle etc etc

I used the NHS recently for my tooth and even though it was them who messed it up they said it needs to be fixed by a private specialist dentist which cost me ?1,050.
 
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