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J. Krishnamurti

Gifter

William Gallas
J. Krishnamurti, Theosophy, and the fabrication of the ÔÇ£new ageÔÇØ movement

I recently attended a Mummery Book 1 enactment, wherein the protagonist, Raymond Darling, is walking through the woods one day, and without warning, comes across a religion that is devoted to him as its symbol. Which of course he finds shocking & bizarre.

However, this is not altogether different from the horrifying real-life experience of best-selling author J. Krishnamurti (1895-1986). As a child he was discovered by a powerful and well-funded ÔÇ£new ageÔÇØ organization, chosen as their future ÔÇ£messiahÔÇØ, carefully groomed for this role, and began to innocently play this role with good intentions until age 34, when he abandoned this bizarre situation and ÔÇô perhaps in an overreaction ÔÇô became a vocal critic of organized religion and religious authority for the rest of his life.

This story is interesting to me because a) it explains J. KrishnamurtiÔÇÖs famous anti-guru stance and b) it demonstrates the kinds of powerful forces that can create fake religions and which laid the foundation for the modern ÔÇ£new ageÔÇØ movement.

In 1929, at the age of thirty-four, Krishnamurti severed himself from the Theosophical Society, after a spiritual experience that completely changed his life, and renounced his role of coming messiah.
While Krishnamurti was being proclaimed by the Theosophical Society, money and gifts of land and property were showered on him.

(In other words, he was getting bribed big-time to go along with this.)

When he resigned from the Society and denied his role, he returned these gifts to the donors and began his new life without knowing whether he would have any followers or any money

Krishnamurti-Besant.jpg


J. Krishnamurti with Annie Besant, president of the Theosophical Society, in 1926. This photo might have been taken in old Krotona - a Theosophical colony located in present-day Beachwood Canyon in Hollywood. (image source)

Krishnamurti did not want people to follow him blindly and obediently Especially, he did not want disciples who might create another religion around him, build up a hierarchy and assume authority. 3

And KrishnamurtiÔÇÖs story was a bizarre one. At one point earlier on, after delivering a public lecture, Krishnamurti was informed by the head of the Theosophical Society (Annie Besant) that a powerful black magician was in fact speaking through him at the lecture. Krishnamurti was astounded, and said that if she really thought that, heÔÇÖd never give another public lecture. The black magician was never afterwards mentioned. I happened to be sleeping at the Castle that night and K [Krishnamurti's nickname] himself told me of this incident. 4 In fact, it was commonly believed at the time that other forces were communicating through Krishnamurti, but they were always described in Theosophical literature as being ÔÇ£ascended mastersÔÇØ.

The Asian Indian guru Meher Baba was once asked what he thought of Krishnamurti, while Krishnamurti was still under the control of the Theosophical Society and being promoted as the messiah for the new age. (Later, Meher Baba had more positive things to say of him.)

Krishnamurti a new world teacher? GHod forbid. You cannot compare the Sadguru Ramakrishna of Calcutta with Krishnamurti. Ramakrishna was Rama and Krishna personified. 5 Krishnamurti is living in all majesty and splendor, pomp and power, and moving about England in aristocratic, fashionable circles, playing tennis and golf, leading a most comfortable life. He does not have the slightest idea, not even a wisp, of the real Truth.

So it is also with these funny, showy Theosophists. Their greatness lies only in editorship, writing and speaking with high-sounding words about planes, powers, colors, secret doctrine, society and caste. Truth is far, far beyond this. 6

A few years later, Meher Baba was asked again about Theosophy and its two leaders at the time, Besant and Leadbeater. He replied that they were somewhat advanced souls, but that without the aid of a genuine master, ÔÇ£hostile forces are created, resulting in delusion.ÔÇØ 7

mulholland-drive-movie.jpg


Many years after the Theosophical Society moved its headquarters out of Hollywood, the film Mulholland Drive (2001) was released. The film director in the movie, not unlike the young Krishnamurti, is able to live in splendor and move in fashionable circles so long as he follows the directions of the "cowboy". I'm told the "cowboy" scene was shot right on the main grounds of old Krotona (the old Theosophical headquarters). Some have asked if David Lynch is implying a connection between Hollywood ("holy wood"), occultism, Theosophy, and doing as you are told. Certainly the film has an enormous amount of occult undertones - all negative - and some feel it is a direct commentary on how Hollywood operates. 8


It may be interesting to note that the Theosophical Society and its members have exerted an enormous influence on the world. I told you the society was powerful and well funded; its members included many in the banking industry, the industrialists Henry Ford & Thomas Edison, and ÔÇ£Wizard of OzÔÇØ author L. Frank Baum. (9) Vice President Henry A. Wallace, who served under FDR from 1933-45, and who insisted on adding the ÔÇ£all-seeing eyeÔÇØ to the dollar bill, is said to have been a member, and was closely associated with another Theosophist named Nicholas Roerich. 10

And of course Theosophy laid the foundation for Shirley Maclaine and the more recent wave of the ÔÇ£new ageÔÇØ movement. Perhaps other well-funded aspects of the ÔÇ£new ageÔÇØ movement are as smoothly promoted, as entirely fabricated, and as carefully controlled as was KrishnamurtiÔÇÖs ÔÇ£messiahÔÇØ status. I do not know. But I believe taking ÔÇ£new ageÔÇØ fascinations with a grain of salt may be healthy.

Questions:

1.If you had been raised from childhood by a new-age organization to be a fake messiah for the world could this cause you to have bad feelings for organized religion and religious authority figures? I cant imagine how upsetting that must have been for J. Krishnamurti, nor how difficult it must have been for him to escape that situation.

2.Why do you think they chose Krishnamurti for this role? The person who chose him said that he had a pure and innocent aura. Do you think innocent children could be, in a way, easy to manipulate, if the right conditioning is applied? Do innocent people tend to assume that everyone has good intentions ÔÇô especially people interested in ÔÇ£spiritualityÔÇØ?

3.Does it bother you that an entire worldwide spiritual movement could potentially be fabricated by 1) a few wealthy people pulling strings, combined with 2) masses of people looking for religious consolations?

"(J. Krishnamurti) is not as advanced as some think. He does good, and will come to me one day. I will help him." - Meher Baba 11

4.Just before he left the Theosophical Society, Krishnamurti told his followers, ÔÇ£Some of you think I can give you a drink that will set you free.ÔÇØ Is there a part of you that would like a glamorous, famous person to give you a drink and tell you it will set you free? Thanks to the recent Mummery Book enactment I attended, IÔÇÖm now more in touch with my own subconscious desire for this.

5.Although Krishnamurti criticized gurus and spiritual teachers for the rest of his life ÔÇô for understandable reasons ÔÇô in a sense wasnÔÇÖt he still being a guru for others? (Later it was publicized that he had an inner circle of close disciples, in addition to all the people who attended his lectures and read his books.) But is there anything inherently wrong with being a teacher?

6.What actually was wrong about what the Theosophists did to and with Krishnamurti?

7.What does Meher Baba mean about using ÔÇ£high-sounding words about planes, powers, colors, secret doctrinesÔÇØ? How many new age teachers today exert an enormous influence over huge numbers of people, using these very sorts of attractions?

8.What might Meher Baba mean when he says that without a genuine master as a guide, ÔÇ£hostile forcesÔÇØ can be created? (especially when fooling around with psychic energies, the projections and illusions of large numbers of people, and perhaps black magic?)

9.Would you accept all kinds of wealth, fame, luxury, adoring fans, prestige, powerful friends, and career success beyond your wildest dreams, if it meant knowingly agreeing to deceive people and harm them spiritually? This question seems to be one that Krishnamurti asked himself.

10.Does KrishnamurtiÔÇÖs story, or Raymond DarlingÔÇÖs story, have a relevance today?

11.If you woke up one day and realized you were surrounded by ignorant, childish, TV-minded people, who are all merely following scripts written for them by others, would you have the courage to do what Krishnamurti did, and leave your attachments behind for the sake of truth?

The modern everyman of consumer society is a propagandized individual, participating in illusions and, effectively, self-destructing. The modern everyman is being created by the power system of the world, because it is in the interests of that power system for there to be consumer egos who are stupefied.
- Not-Two Is Peace 12

Regards,
BoT Student

P.S. For more information about Theosophy, I recommend searching online for the Lucifer Publishing Company, founded by Annie BesantÔÇÖs successor, Alice Bailey. Today, renamed the Lucis Trust, it enjoys ÔÇ£Consultative StatusÔÇØ with the United Nations and is connected with the most powerful corporations, foundations, councils, and men and women in the world. And just like Evelyn Disk, these people are said to be members of the ÔÇ£illuminatiÔÇØ, who can interpret lifeÔÇÖs mysteries for us, comfort us, entertain us, and hand us our lifeÔÇÖs script to follow.
 
Footnotes:

1.See Mummery Book website.

2.Excerpted from The Life and Death of Krishnamurti, by Mary Lutyens, p.59. As included in The Basket of Tolerance by Adi Da Samraj. Mary Lutyens knew Krishnamurti personally since the time Krishnamurti was a child.

3.Lutyens, p.8.

4.Lutyens, p.58.

5.It’s my opinion that Ramakrishna was the forerunner to Adi Da, who completed the work begun by Ramakrishna. I’ve investigated this for many years, from many angles, and this is my conclusion. Adi Da is the one who assembled The Basket of Tolerance and wrote The Mummery Book.

6.June 26, 1926, as quoted in Lord Meher: The Biography of Avatar Meher Baba, volume three, by Bhau Kalchuri (volumes 1 & 2 are included in The Basket of Tolerance by Adi Da), pp. 816-17.

7.November 25, 1931, as quoted in Kalchuri, volume 4, p. 1488.

8.Props to Don Bradley for his Mulholland Drive film review, and for other insights about Theosophy and Krishnamurti. Don Bradley, formerly a popular new age author and TV guest, says he was raised much the same way as Krishnamurti, and for the same purpose – to become a widely promoted spiritual leader for the “new age”, while under the control of others.

9.According to this letter.

10.According to wikipedia and other sources.

11.November 1931, Harmon-on-Hudson, New York, to Max Wardhall (Kalchuri, volume 4, p.1469)

12.See Not-Two Is Peace discussion site.

http://botstudent.org/2012/05/21/krishnamurti-theosophy/
 
Life – a mass of vibrations

the-mother-mirra-alfassa.jpg


The Mother (1878-1973), also known as Mirra Alfassa, was a spiritual teacher and (benign) occultist who lived in Pondicherry, India.

“Everyone transmits.” - Adi Da Samraj

I was noticing recently that I’m not as disciplined as I used to be, and also not as happy. It occurred to me that perhaps there’s a connection there? (I don’t mean “disciplined” as some nasty, self-involved thing, but in terms of consciously choosing how to live.)

So we might ask, what happens when we don’t make conscious choices about how to spend our time and attention? Here’s a juicy quote that suggests one possible answer:

You must understand that you are not separate individualities, that life is a constant exchange of forces, of consciousnesses, of vibrations, of movements of all kinds. It is as in a crowd, you see: when everyone pushes all go forward, and when all recede, everyone recedes. It is the same thing in the inner world, in your consciousness. There are all the time forces and influences acting upon you, it is like a gas in the atmosphere, and unless you are quite awake, these things enter into you, and it is only when they have gone well in and come out as if they came from you, that you become aware of them.

How many times people meet those who are nervous, angry, in a bad mood, and themselves become nervous, angry, moody, just like that, without knowing why. Why is it that when you play [a sport] against certain people you play very well, but when you play against others you cannot play? And those very quiet people, not at all wicked, who suddenly become furious when they are in a furious crowd! And no one knows who has started it: it is something that went past and swept off the consciousness. There are people who can let out vibrations like this and others respond without knowing why.

Everything is like that, from the smallest to the biggest things.

To be individualized in a collectivity, one must be absolutely conscious of oneself. And of which self? – the Self which is above all intermixture, that is what I call the Truth of your being. And as long as you are not conscious of the Truth of your being, you are moved by all kinds of things, without taking any note of it at all. Collective thought, collective suggestions are a formidable influence which act constantly on individual thought. And what is extraordinary is that one does not notice it. One believes that one thinks “like that” but it is the collectivity that thinks “like that”.

[Excerpted from The Hidden Forces of Life: Selections from the Works of Sri Aurobindo and The Mother, compiled with an introduction by A.S. Dalal. As included in The Basket of Tolerance by Adi Da Samraj.]

Questions for consideration:

When she says “collective suggestions are a formidable influence”, what is your experience of this? Is she exaggerating?

When you feel a desire to hurt someone, or self-medicate with your drug of choice, or indulge in some sort other of craziness, how do you relate with these passions?

There is an old saying “if you go with the flow, you get flushed down the toilet”. What do you think?

Regards,
BoT Student
 
Aurobindo on “dark forces” and world events

SriAurobindo.jpg

Sri Aurobindo (1872 - 1950) was a guru, philosopher, poet, and (benign) occultist.

Here is how a teacher named Sri Aurobindo said the world works, speaking in the early 20th century. (This is very different from what I was taught in school.) See how this fits with your own perception of things.

… looking at what happened in 1914 — or for that matter at all that is and has been happening in human history — the eye of the Yogin sees not only the outward events and persons and causes, but the enormous forces which precipitate them into action.
If the men who fought (in World War I) were instruments in the hands of rulers and financiers, these in turn were mere puppets in the clutch of these forces. When one is habituated to see the things behind, one is no longer prone to expect any remedy from political, institutional, or social changes; the only way out is through the descent of a (Divine) consciousness which is not the puppet of these forces but is greater than they are and can compel them either to change or disappear.

[Excerpted from The Hidden Forces of Life: Selections from the Works of Sri Aurobindo and The Mother, compiled by A.S. Dalal. (Pondicherry, India: Sri Aurobindo Ashram Publications.) As listed on The Basket of Tolerance, section on "mind science", by Adi Da Samraj.]

Questions for consideration:

Do you think the world is purely physical in nature, or do you think there could be more to it than that?

Do you think the world’s problems can be solved by social or political changes alone?

Do you feel a connection between your spiritual practice and your political views / feelings? Or do you have a “conceptual wall” between the two?
 
ÔÇ£EvelynÔÇÖs meditationsÔÇØ & the problem with good intentions

It is RaymondÔÇÖs Way ÔÇô the Way of the Divine True Heart.
- Evelyn Disk

In The Mummery Book* ÔÇô by far the best drama IÔÇÖve read to date ÔÇô the most evil, manipulative, and destructive character in the story eloquently expounds some truths and good intentions at one point, just when I least expect him to.

How can this be? I have to admit I was confused, offended, and a little angry when I noticed this, and part of me wanted to throw the book out. I guess on some level I thought that bad guys ÔÇô whether in fiction or real life ÔÇô should be 100% bad, easy to identify, with a clear ÔÇ£bad guyÔÇØ label, and look and feel nothing like myself or my friends, in much the way that ÔÇ£Sauron the DeceiverÔÇØ is obviously depicted as ÔÇ£badÔÇØ in J.R.R. TolkienÔÇÖs Lord of the Rings film adaptations.

Eye-of-sauron.jpg

Particularly in film adaptations, "Sauron the Deceiver" is depicted as a giant, terrifying, multi-storied eye of flame, so we know he's the bad guy.

So the question remains, why would a ÔÇ£bad guyÔÇØ in a story be depicted as human, apparently charismatic, and ÔÇô at times ÔÇô clearly devoted to truth? Why write it that way?

To help this feel more concrete, lets look at one possible real-life Evelyn Disk, someone who might later be seen as harmful  with the aid of 20/20 hindsight  but who at the time, from within the Evelyn-cult, is considered not only not-so-bad, but an inspirational and dedicated leader

Look closely at the faces and body-language:

hitler-crowd.jpg

Adolf Hitler, in an open car, with few if any secret service agents, and everyone's faces apparently glowing with love and celebration. (Photographer and year unknown)

It appears Hitler was popular with many people, believed in GHod, and even went on retreat regularly.

ÔÇ£Who says I am not under the special protection of GHod?ÔÇØ ÔÇô Adolph Hitler (source: brainy quote)

Hitler used to retire into solitude and remain there as long as it was necessary to come into contact with his ÔÇ£guideÔÇØ and receive from him inspirations which he later carried out very faithfully.

This being, which Hitler took for the Supreme, was quite plainly [an evil spirit]. He had a shining appearance, he could mislead anybody except one who really had occult knowledge and could see what was there behind the appearance. He would have deceived anybody; he was truly splendid. [He was] so dazzling that Hitler could hardly look at him

Hitler was a very good medium [and clairvoyant], but he lacked intelligence and discrimination.

[Excerpted from The Hidden Forces of Life: Selections from the Works of Sri Aurobindo and The Mother, compiled with an introduction by A.S. Dalal. As included in The Basket of Tolerance by Adi Da Samraj.]

You may be surprised to know that, early on, more than half the residents at Sri Aurobindos ashram were supporters of Hitler. Aurobindo said nothing about this openly, but in private he remarked that his students have no idea about the world and talk like little children. Hitler is the greatest menace the world has ever met. (5/17/1940)

* A new ÔÇ£radioÔÇØ production of The Mummery Book is coming on May 12, 2012; stay tuned for details. The book, which I recommend, can be purchased here.

Questions:

How could devotees in a spiritual ashram be so deceived as to support someone like Hitler?

In her comment, is The Mother suggesting that Hitler believed he was serving some sort of Divine Being?

If Hitler had devotion, discipline, and a strong spiritual orientation going for him then what was he missing? Or what did he have too much of?

If people like Hitler or Evelyn Disk convince themselves that all their actions are not only protected, but guided by GHod, could that be problematic? Is there any limit to what they might feel justified doing? Can you think of anyone whoÔÇÖs a little bit like this ÔÇô not someone foreign & far away, but someone in your own sphere?

In The Mummery Book (or, if you havenÔÇÖt read it, think of a similar story), does the bad guy always see himself as 100% bad? Could his positive self-image and dedicated belief in the necessity of his actions be part of why heÔÇÖs so popular, trusted, and loved?

Do EvelynÔÇÖs followers have ÔÇ£good intentionsÔÇØ?

What is it thatÔÇÖs so attractive about fake cult leaders?

If you woke up one day and somehow found yourself in the scene depicted in the above photo ÔÇô with everyone around you swept up in what they believe is harmless adoration ÔÇô what would you say to the people, and how do you think theyÔÇÖd respond? Please, really consider this.

In The Mummery Book the narrator says, The only method of the ÔÇ£followersÔÇØ of Evelyn, at Saint-and-Ear, is ÔÇô like children ÔÇô to be ÔÇ£abstractÔÇØ. So, to make this more concrete, we might ask ourselves: are there any leaders, teachers, TV personalities, or spiritual authorities in our lives, who appear good, inspiring, trustworthy? Think of people in positions of power or visibility who are not yet enlightened, and yet who you or your friends feel could do no wrong or ever have bad intentions, simply because of their love-soaked surroundings, their popularity, the important status or position they hold, the beauty, humor, & intelligence of their words, or just how good, validated, and ÔÇ£snugÔÇØ they make you feel.

How do you know whatÔÇÖs right in a situation, if there are no clear-cut ÔÇ£badÔÇØ or ÔÇ£goodÔÇØ labels given to you? To what extent do you depend on social cues (a.k.a. peer pressure) to know right from wrong?

The world is a Vast Store of Bondage  a mere, endless, and ceaselessly familiar Mummery. A ridiculous, hypocritical, and pretentious Performance. An absurdly costumed Ceremony  ritually and comically Enacted, solemnly Scripted, monotonously pre-Ordained, and ceaselessly Repeated. Only living, only seeking  and, at last, only dying.

The True Heart Is One, in Its Prior Deep ÔÇô Behind and Beyond below. And Shining Bright, Beyond forever ÔÇô Beyond every thing above. Raymond and Quandra Are the True Heart. And They Are Ever-One. Never in the pond of wake-and-dream-and-sleep ÔÇô but only in His House. Where They Embrace ÔÇô Beyond forever ÔÇô Beyond all views and hours.

And I will follow Them  from here to There  on Raymonds Way. And Mummery, for me, will be  no more!

- Evelyn Disk
The Mummery Book

(optional soundtrack: Gary JulesÔÇÖ Mad World)
 
Alot of this stuff has direct relation IMO to the Tony Blair thread recently - 'I answer to GHod', indeed you do Tony, just not mine.
 
Feel better now you've got off that off your chest?

It wasn't on my chest. It was just something I found interesting, and brings a different perspective to historical and current events, which maybe one or two posters may be interested in reading. Thanks for the bump though.
 
are you apart of a creepy cult of some kind gifter?

If by creepy cult you mean looking for things with meaning (beyond tits and ass) on the net, then yes I am.

I follow no organised belief system, that I am aware of.
 
Gifter, these threads are despite what perhaps the others say, are extremely interesting and it's interesting to see why people do things and what reasons they give. Do you have any interest in this sort of thing as a whole or is it just recently you've been thinking about these things? (no reason just curious really, the threads are very interesting all the same :) )
 
If by creepy cult you mean looking for things with meaning (beyond tits and ass) on the net, then yes I am.

I follow no organised belief system, that I am aware of.

just razzin' ya mate. i really do find this stuff interesting.. keep it up.
 
I would have said a religion that is fraudulent in terms its representation of its belief system (i.e they put forward ideas they know not to be true) and uses that misrepresentation to make gains from the exploited masses, these gains can include but are not limited too, monetary gain, gain of followers or gain in reverence due to the misrepresentation and exploitation of a fraudulent belief system.
 
Gifter, these threads are despite what perhaps the others say, are extremely interesting and it's interesting to see why people do things and what reasons they give. Do you have any interest in this sort of thing as a whole or is it just recently you've been thinking about these things? (no reason just curious really, the threads are very interesting all the same :) )

Yes I have had a deep interest in such things, trying to find pure truth, I have read alot over many years (alot of new age junk which has fascinating nuggets of truth, then draws you in). I've mostly studied into alternative energies in the past 6-7 years, but since I was a teenager I have actively sought things (I had a psychic dream when I was 18 which really freaked me out when it happened a week later and gives me a perspective much much different to nearly everybody else).

We certainly are not just flesh and bones.

Glad one or two find it interesting.
 
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