I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[africanspurs]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

He actually had 3 key passes in the game, tied for the best with Holtby I think.

Man if it's like this already, I fear for us after he actually starts playing premier league games :lol: Was Modric ever picked apart like this, or did the whole '2 points 8 games' thing kinda overshadow everything?

ironically enough he hasnt been picked apart at all. infact he has been given a staggering amount of positives v negatives. this whole thing stems from hurt feelings of worshippers simply because i expected to see more from our record signing. the next step is for people to make up stuff and jump to conclusions about almost every and anything. Its the equivalent of a bleeding witch hunt for an opinion. I dont think others that felt a little underwhelmed at the debut can be arsed or bothered to argue out the right to say that they were underwhelmed but i'm stubborn enough to keep it going a bit longer

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

This thread is funny

i was actually thinking that this morning. i think i am going to do these one liners as much as possible

 

[Ginolius]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

ironically enough he hasnt been picked apart at all. infact he has been given a staggering amount of positives v negatives. this whole thing stems from hurt feelings of worshippers simply because i expected to see more from our record signing. the next step is for people to make up stuff and jump to conclusions about almost every and anything. Its the equivalent of a bleeding witch hunt for an opinion. I dont think others that felt a little underwhelmed at the debut can be arsed or bothered to argue out the right to say that they were underwhelmed but i'm stubborn enough to keep it going a bit longer

Just watched the game and I was fairly impressed with him; he was quiet to begin with but grew in confidence. True he Drifted in and out of the game rather than bought it to himself but at times he had terrific movement, awareness, a great first touch, a good range of passing and it was a great bit of link up play for the goal - i certainly saw enough there to think his potential is fairly high and that given time there's every possibility he could justify or surpass that price tag.

Sure he didn't go out and single handedly destroy the opposition but realistically it's incredibly rare for young debutants in a new league to do so - Modric and berbatov only occasionally showed glimpses of the players they would become during their first few months and while Eriksen seemed to hit the ground running he is the exception rather than the rule. Even Van Persie, Ronaldo and Fabregas came in for criticism at the start of their carers in the Pl.

If you're really underwhelmed then I recommend you go hunt down girouds debut when he came on against Sunderland and did his best impression of a donkey, or rosickys first 4 years of doing the same... Even mata was getting flack in his first 6 months in the country. A long term view is always needed with young players, as long as the potential is there it's all good as even a world beating performance doesn't mean they're not going to be another mido.

Personally I saw enough to think he has every chance to acclimatise and to develop positively. Of course he could follow the progression of someone like taraabt or dos Santos but there's always that danger and it's far, far too early to tell either way - 10m players rarely look like they're worth that much in their first game and it's even less likely someone will be able to make themselves seem worth 30m in such a short time. Their cost shouldn't really come into it though, it's far more important that they show they can be an asset than
They justify a price tag.

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk 4

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

:lol:

With his wrong foot.

Think harder...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QtTIIMinHME

I think Lamela'a pas was better because it showed more vision and was first time, but that is not really the point.

Of course someone can find a better pass, I would hope so, but Hudd has played 150 times more for Spurs. Lamela has one in one Hudd has 1 or 2 in 150, you do the maths.

This a board, we pass judgement on the evidence available. Lamela did not have a great game because he did not do enough, but he showed some glimpses of his talent.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

Just watched the game and I was fairly impressed with him; he was quiet to begin with but grew in confidence. True he Drifted in and out of the game rather than bought it to himself but at times he had terrific movement, awareness, a great first touch, a good range of passing and it was a great bit of link up play for the goal - i certainly saw enough there to think his potential is fairly high and that given time there's every possibility he could justify or surpass that price tag.

Sure he didn't go out and single handedly destroy the opposition but realistically it's incredibly rare for young debutants in a new league to do so - Modric and berbatov only occasionally showed glimpses of the players they would become during their first few months and while Eriksen seemed to hit the ground running he is the exception rather than the rule. Even Van Persie, Ronaldo and Fabregas came in for criticism at the start of their carers in the Pl.

If you're really underwhelmed then I recommend you go hunt down girouds debut when he came on against Sunderland and did his best impression of a donkey, or rosickys first 4 years of doing the same... Even mata was getting flack in his first 6 months in the country. A long term view is always needed with young players, as long as the potential is there it's all good as even a world beating performance doesn't mean they're not going to be another mido.

Personally I saw enough to think he has every chance to acclimatise and to develop positively. Of course he could follow the progression of someone like taraabt or dos Santos but there's always that danger and it's far, far too early to tell either way - 10m players rarely look like they're worth that much in their first game and it's even less likely someone will be able to make themselves seem worth 30m in such a short time. Their cost shouldn't really come into it though, it's far more important that they show they can be an asset than
They justify a price tag.

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk 4

have to say that this is a very good post. i actually agree with all that, especially if i approached it from a neutral and less excited and anticipatory point of view.
at least you understand where i'm coming from and took the time to read what i have actually said even though you dont agree with the basis or the reasons why i felt underwhelmed

i basically got caught in the hype and thought it would be immediate. but i refuse to buckle under the pressure of people tagging me as some kind of hater just cause i didnt get what i expected to see in his debut

its funny but these are the things i have said...all of which have been ignored by all except a small group of what seems to be abnormal people who take time to read and understand and not bring straw men into the equation (yourself,braineclipse as example)...the problem is that its buried in me arguing both sides...a) what i expected to see in the game but was underwhelmed and b) me acknowledging what he did. but people will only focus on what they want to...few people take the time. Rossi22 put it best in that my comment was a "very simple comment" ...basically calling me a simple minded person. but the thing is that if you make the post bigger....the effect of what you want to say gets lost in the details.

i agree with everything you said in your post the only difference was that i was actually expecting a bit of out of this world magic based on what i have heard....why shouldnt i if thats what has been hyped up so much by people? but anyway...below are some things which should show you that i am not totally an ogre which to be fair i think you grasped

he had a solid all round team performance, nothing distinguishable for me

the irony is that even though eriksen has more experience than him both are roughly the same age and lamela has played in a "top league" longer...plus yesterday lamela actually played an old man's game. very composed, make good solid and safe decisions, aside from a couple of times he only took on his man when hs chances were in his favour and looked like the right time (which is good decision making), he had very good movement and is clearly very spatially aware, his play was geared towards a team game and keep things ticking over etc. he actually played the game of an experienced footballer

having said all that...if we payed 30 million for potential then i can probably understand why. in that lamela plays with more advanced mental understanding and appreciation of the game than his age suggests AND he is very capable of scoring goals and assisting (from a team building aspect with regards to the assist, speaking of which ....he looks more like a central player to me as opposed to a wing forward. maybe we need to have a look at his there?)

right, i'm with you now. take away the price tag and the hype ..and just focusing on the debutant and making allowances for all potential obstacles then yes it was an impressive first time home performance for a 21 year old. cant argue with that

how about this.....compared to most technical players that play in the top 5 or 6 teams in the top 3 leagues that was a good pass. but for us in our team and what we were used to ...it was a bit special

acceptable?

agree with the last bit of you post...but i am coming from an avenue of looking for some kind of vindication on the hype many gave him here. including someone like King dawson whose opinion on assessing ability i respect very much on here

expectations against cardiff

actually on a serious note , i have seen nothing to suggest that's what he is all about. i think once again he'll play well and depending on his level of abilities he may score or assist someone. sometimes you just need a bunch of good players all doing their roles to make an AMAZING TEAM. its all about the team at the end of the day

i think we will see another solid and composed performance though, i dont think he will play bad......the way he plays , playing bad is rarely going to be on the cards, i dont think however that he will rip cardiff to shreds in a solo performance sense...in a team oriented approach i think he will help the whole team dominate cardiff. i would be pleasantly surprised if he did rip them a new **** hole through some spectacular solo play

 

[Pandy]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

ironically enough he hasnt been picked apart at all. infact he has been given a staggering amount of positives v negatives. this whole thing stems from hurt feelings of worshippers simply because i expected to see more from our record signing. the next step is for people to make up stuff and jump to conclusions about almost every and anything. Its the equivalent of a bleeding witch hunt for an opinion. I dont think others that felt a little underwhelmed at the debut can be arsed or bothered to argue out the right to say that they were underwhelmed but i'm stubborn enough to keep it going a bit longer

I was slightly underwhelmed, although it has to be said I am not really expecting much from any of our signings immediately so I'm not sure 'underwhelmed' is the word. I think GB is spot on. Basically he hasn't been a £30m player for us so far but has shown that he might be worth his transfer fee when he settles in, which is enough for me. He is clearly a talented footballer, the way he killed that looping ball coming over his shoulder to the wing and his assist were excellent.

An aside, talking of great passes, I thought Holtby's pass for Defoe's second was absolutely sublime. He wasn't under much pressure but it was weighted perfectly and left Defoe with as little to do as he could ever want (still wasn't particularly easy and the finish was great). Lamela had a bit more margin for error between the defence and keeper.

 

[Pandy]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

I think Lamela'a pas was better because it showed more vision and was first time, but that is not really the point.

Of course someone can find a better pass, I would hope so, but Hudd has played 150 times more for Spurs. Lamela has one in one Hudd has 1 or 2 in 150, you do the maths.

This a board, we pass judgement on the evidence available. Lamela did not have a great game because he did not do enough, but he showed some glimpses of his talent.

It is pointless to be in the business of comparing one pass/passer to another. Especially when Huddlestone's best passes were often over 40, 50, or 60 yards (you are doing a disservice to someone who was an important player for us). The final few words are what is important, they gave the impression that he can be class for us without him actually being class.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

African - are you snowed-in?, marooned on a desert island?, or doing a 10 stretch in the clink?........(but still with internet access, of course)


And as for Erik

[video=youtube;mACqcZZwG0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mACqcZZwG0k[/video]

 

[Ginolius]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

have to say that this is a very good post. i actually agree with all that, especially if i approached it from a neutral and less excited and anticipatory point of view.
at least you understand where i'm coming from and took the time to read what i have actually said even though you dont agree with the basis or the reasons why i felt underwhelmed

i basically got caught in the hype and thought it would be immediate. but i refuse to buckle under the pressure of people tagging me as some kind of hater just cause i didnt get what i expected to see in his debut

its funny but these are the things i have said...all of which have been ignored by all except a small group of what seems to be abnormal people who take time to read and understand and not bring straw men into the equation (yourself,braineclipse as example)...the problem is that its buried in me arguing both sides...a) what i expected to see in the game but was underwhelmed and b) me acknowledging what he did. but people will only focus on what they want to...few people take the time. Rossi22 put it best in that my comment was a "very simple comment" ...basically calling me a simple minded person. but the thing is that if you make the post bigger....the effect of what you want to say gets lost in the details.

i agree with everything you said in your post the only difference was that i was actually expecting a bit of out of this world magic based on what i have heard....why shouldnt i if thats what has been hyped up so much by people? but anyway...below are some things which should show you that i am not totally an ogre which to be fair i think you grasped









expectations against cardiff

Aye mate, of course you're welcome to hope for some magic, I do too! Everyone watches football for those moments and it was why we were sad to lose bale - not for the points he won us but for the magical way he did it. The difference between hope and expectation is a whole lot of disappointment though - as you well know this is football, not chess, and the amount of variables that come into play make almost nothing a certainly.

As you said yourself you got caught up in the hype and I think the key thing is perspective - something missing from most football discussion at times, whether it's you getting caught up in hype, the inability to see the qualities of rivals or people over rating someone, there's so many opportunities in such an emotional matter for people to go too far with polarised views.

Just like our team is never going to look like Barca while the coach has had such a relatively short period of stability within which to work, likewise our players are unlikely to perform like bale did right off the bat; hell, we may not see Lamela even look like a 15m player this season but even if that were the case that's not to say he can't be a 50m player the year after.

If football was as easy as spending 100m and having a guaranteed fantastic team to watch there would be a lot more interesting matches around considering all the money in the league but sadly time is something no team can buy, yet it's the most essential ingredient once the manager and players are in place - just look at City to see what transition does to even the best players in the world. They bought even better than us and yet are playing far worse football.

We're lucky that we had such solid defensive groundwork laid last year that we will still prove competitive even while we evolve going forward, but don't confuse our uninspired wins this season with the finished article - AVB will want to get the best out of players like Lamela as much as we do and while he might say in the press he's happy just to get 3 points, he will always be thinking how to get more. Lamela will have all the opportunity to benefit from that, as will the rest of the team and as more attacking patterns become natural, and as players begin to learn about those around them, they will be able to play more freely and express themselves.

He's young, technically gifted and seemingly astute; the key thing for me personally is that I can't wait to watch how players like him, Eriksen, chadli and townsend develop under a forward thinking manager. I'm hopeful that in a few years time we'll have another Bale on our hands, providing us with magic - maybe even more than one! - but patience will be required to avoid getting frustrated in the meantime; we're not chelski and we're not looking to buy everything overnight.

Also I have to say mate, a lot of the comments directed at you that you saw as being labelled as a hater looked, from the outside at least, to be genuine attempts at a discussion; albeit ones that could easily be misinterpreted.

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk 4

 

[Pandy]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

It is pointless to be in the business of comparing one pass/passer to another. Especially when Huddlestone's best passes were often over 40, 50, or 60 yards (you are doing a disservice to someone who was an important player for us). The final few words are what is important, they gave the impression that he can be class for us without him actually being class.

Although most of the passing compilations of Hudd seem to have been removed from youtube (and are filled with the same rare goals, despite the fact that he was actually a pretty terrible shooter unless he caught the ball correctly), the couple from 0.43 in this video are excellent examples of what I'm talking about:

[video=youtube;O0sWDmpaFVM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0sWDmpaFVM[/video]

The first one in this video, against Shakhtar in the EL under Redknapp, is absolutely ridiculous (again under no pressure but the ball travels about 80 yards). How anyone can call Lamela's pass the other night better than this I am not quite sure:

[video=youtube;ypV7sAZLsN8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypV7sAZLsN8[/video]

I doubt we will ever see Lamela do that... but of course you're right that wasn't the point. Just thought I should back our old boy Thuddz who gave me many happy moments with some sublime passes!

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

African - are you snowed-in?, marooned on a desert island?, or doing a 10 stretch in the clink?........(but still with internet access, of course)


And as for Erik

[video=youtube;mACqcZZwG0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mACqcZZwG0k[/video]

lol

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

Aye mate, of course you're welcome to hope for some magic, I do too! Everyone watches football for those moments and it was why we were sad to lose bale - not for the points he won us but for the magical way he did it. The difference between hope and expectation is a whole lot of disappointment though - as you well know this is football, not chess, and the amount of variables that come into play make almost nothing a certainly.

As you said yourself you got caught up in the hype and I think the key thing is perspective - something missing from most football discussion at times, whether it's you getting caught up in hype, the inability to see the qualities of rivals or people over rating someone, there's so many opportunities in such an emotional matter for people to go too far with polarised views.

Just like our team is never going to look like Barca while the coach has had such a relatively short period of stability within which to work, likewise our players are unlikely to perform like bale did right off the bat; hell, we may not see Lamela even look like a 15m player this season but even if that were the case that's not to say he can't be a 50m player the year after.

If football was as easy as spending 100m and having a guaranteed fantastic team to watch there would be a lot more interesting matches around considering all the money in the league but sadly time is something no team can buy, yet it's the most essential ingredient once the manager and players are in place - just look at City to see what transition does to even the best players in the world. They bought even better than us and yet are playing far worse football.

We're lucky that we had such solid defensive groundwork laid last year that we will still prove competitive even while we evolve going forward, but don't confuse our uninspired wins this season with the finished article - AVB will want to get the best out of players like Lamela as much as we do and while he might say in the press he's happy just to get 3 points, he will always be thinking how to get more. Lamela will have all the opportunity to benefit from that, as will the rest of the team and as more attacking patterns become natural, and as players begin to learn about those around them, they will be able to play more freely and express themselves.

He's young, technically gifted and seemingly astute; the key thing for me personally is that I can't wait to watch how players like him, Eriksen, chadli and townsend develop under a forward thinking manager. I'm hopeful that in a few years time we'll have another Bale on our hands, providing us with magic - maybe even more than one! - but patience will be required to avoid getting frustrated in the meantime; we're not chelski and we're not looking to buy everything overnight.

Also I have to say mate, a lot of the comments directed at you that you saw as being labelled as a hater looked, from the outside at least, to be genuine attempts at a discussion; albeit ones that could easily be misinterpreted.

Sent from my HTC One using Fapatalk 4

agree with pretty much everything there.....thats normally how i would approach things.

just a few points.....how do you know or can have insight into the kind of football AVB is gearing us up for? this could be it save for the development of individual players. last season what pretty much saturated in performances that saw us very structured and disciplined but with less fluidity than one would have hoped. we seem to be going the same route so far......BUT i think the introduction of more and more technical players gives us scope and ability to change that....but how can we be sure AVB will actually gear it to something more attacking?

and as for perceiving the lazy lynch mob straw man comments from people, yeah considering one of them is front runner for Bozo of the year i doubt those are discussion based.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

Don't worry, you're quickly coming up on the outside for that award

 

[colin fishwick]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

Although most of the passing compilations of Hudd seem to have been removed from youtube (and are filled with the same rare goals, despite the fact that he was actually a pretty terrible shooter unless he caught the ball correctly), the couple from 0.43 in this video are excellent examples of what I'm talking about:

[video=youtube;O0sWDmpaFVM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0sWDmpaFVM[/video]

The first one in this video, against Shakhtar in the EL under Redknapp, is absolutely ridiculous (again under no pressure but the ball travels about 80 yards). How anyone can call Lamela's pass the other night better than this I am not quite sure:

[video=youtube;ypV7sAZLsN8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypV7sAZLsN8[/video]

I doubt we will ever see Lamela do that... but of course you're right that wasn't the point. Just thought I should back our old boy Thuddz who gave me many happy moments with some sublime passes!

The first one was indeed a good pass, possibly Hudd's best in the 6 years he was with us. In generally Hudd's pass were squae or diagonal like Dawson's, these are easier to do.

Hudd very, very split a defense with a pass, which is why he got so few assists.

The frightening thing about that you tube video is - anyone watching would have thought Hudd had a great shot.

He of course had a terrible shot, which is why he scored so few goals, despite taking so many shots.

Lamela in one game has played a pass Hudd rarely if every produced. A slide rule , UNEXPECTED perfectly weighted first time pass, that resulted in a goal and an assist

it is a good sign, no more than that.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

I think Lamela'a pas was better because it showed more vision and was first time, but that is not really the point.

Of course someone can find a better pass, I would hope so, but Hudd has played 150 times more for Spurs. Lamela has one in one Hudd has 1 or 2 in 150, you do the maths.

This a board, we pass judgement on the evidence available. Lamela did not have a great game because he did not do enough, but he showed some glimpses of his talent.

you said Hudd had never played a pass like that.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

The first one was indeed a good pass, possibly Hudd's best in the 6 years he was with us. In generally Hudd's pass were squae or diagonal like Dawson's, these are easier to do.

Hudd very, very split a defense with a pass, which is why he got so few assists.

The frightening thing about that you tube video is - anyone watching would have thought Hudd had a great shot.

He of course had a terrible shot, which is why he scored so few goals, despite taking so many shots.

Lamela in one game has played a pass Hudd rarely if every produced. A slide rule , UNEXPECTED perfectly weighted first time pass, that resulted in a goal and an assist

it is a good sign, no more than that.

somehow this thread shifted slightly from me calling out lamela's performance to questioning Thudds role in the team and what he offered

i can sink a tooth or two into the post above in a logical manner

the post above is completely wrong and out of context. disagree with most of the stuff in there in absolute fashion

 

[Pandy]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

The first one was indeed a good pass, possibly Hudd's best in the 6 years he was with us. In generally Hudd's pass were squae or diagonal like Dawson's, these are easier to do.

Hudd very, very split a defense with a pass, which is why he got so few assists.

The frightening thing about that you tube video is - anyone watching would have thought Hudd had a great shot.

He of course had a terrible shot, which is why he scored so few goals, despite taking so many shots.

Lamela in one game has played a pass Hudd rarely if every produced. A slide rule , UNEXPECTED perfectly weighted first time pass, that resulted in a goal and an assist

it is a good sign, no more than that.

If Hudd was playing in a more advanced position he might have played the type of pass Lamela played with more regularity. He sat deep and kept possession, you need to play it square often if that is your role. But he was also capable of creating masses of space for Bale and Lennon by switching the play early.

Someone mentioned Lamela's runs not being spotted, it was Hudd's job to spot these runs early, but often even if he played the perfect ball it would rarely be one to put a man through on goal. Normally there would be at least 1 more pass before a goal and hence Hudd would not be credited with an assist.

That does not mean he wasn't an excellent passer. He just wasn't the bloke to find space between the lines and roll the ball in for the striker as Lamela did in this pass you keep referring to.

Agree with the last sentence though.. That's all we can really expect of him at this point. Would like to see him start against Villa, watched the first half and a bit of the second of their game against Norwich today before my computer overheated and died, Luna made Snodgrass look like Ronaldo at times and his positioning in general was dreadful, left gaping holes on the inside a couple of times too. Lamela hopefully will be able to take advantage if they both play.

 

[skyfarer]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

ironically enough he hasnt been picked apart at all. infact he has been given a staggering amount of positives v negatives. this whole thing stems from hurt feelings of worshippers simply because i expected to see more from our record signing. the next step is for people to make up stuff and jump to conclusions about almost every and anything. Its the equivalent of a bleeding witch hunt for an opinion. I dont think others that felt a little underwhelmed at the debut can be arsed or bothered to argue out the right to say that they were underwhelmed but i'm stubborn enough to keep it going a bit longer

By picked apart, I mean over-analyzed - both in a positive and negative way. There's simply no reason to obsess over his every touch/pass/what have you, he will never be the type to drop in with a bang - just look at his pre-season, he was miserable there and looked like a completely different player because his life wasn't settled.

I know why we're tempted to do it, and there's certainly nothing wrong with your opinion, I'd just suggest that EVERYONE wait a while before really forming any conclusions about our newbies *coughChadlicough*. Eriksen isn't the second coming just yet, you guys.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

I apologise for my 'wow' post - I was just stunned there was even a debate on Erik at this point (I find it hard to waffle when I am stunned).

What is the actual debate here please?

The 'debate' so-to-speak is whether Lamela justified his transfer fee in his one start this season. It's ludicrous.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Erik Lamela - Official

He has superb touch. I'm not afraid to say that I think, in time, he will be a BRILLIANT signing for us...