Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

[Superted]

ok, so you got a guarantee that a new manager will do better than the best manager we've had in ages? cool, where do we sign?

Where did I say that?

 

[africanspurs]

Ah see, there's the problem right there. You think it's all gone back to normal. It clearly hasn't. Once bitten, twice shy. If your missus had eyes for another bloke, much to the point she wouldn't attend to you and cook you eggs for months on end, because she's over you and wants this other bloke, but then that bloke hooks up with someone else, you think your relationship would be the same? I don't forgive that easily. I'd go and find me a woman who likes me for me. And has bigger tits.

thats actually a good analogy, but i think harry wanting a longer term contract is indicative of him not being so easy for the england job.

though you are right in that there is a good chance he would run

but the thing is that , until he leaves i'm fine...cause infact i knew from the start that he dreamed of being england manager. how did i know? he only told me like 10 times in the press. why would it tinkle me off now?

as long as the players can see some kind of stability then the illusion of continuity should still be there

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think if Harry stayed, we'd still be consistent. And this year, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, we would have waltzed into 3rd were it not for the England speculation.

But that's because we were the 3rd best team. Arsenal and Chelsea won't be as bad again. So is Harry going to over-take them, with less money? I just can't see it happening. We'll be fairly consistent in terms of staying in the top 6, but beyond that I'm not sure.

The only thing is, we did finish above Emirates Marketing Project after they had spent bucketloads in 09/10, so maybe he can if he gets the right players in, and the squad is balanced. I dunno!

 

[billyiddo]

If a new manager comes in, especially one that the Redknapp rebels want to replace Redknapp with, and flops you already know what they'll say. It was Redknapp's fault for leaving behind a disjointed, ageing squad etc.

you really do think you know everything

i know whatever happens in the future you will be on here twisting everything everyone says to suit your own agenda, running away from debates where you get verbally smacked down, doing your best to create an divisive atmosphere, attacking anyone who has a differing view to your own and generally actuing like a the massive wind up merchant you are

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

As would a home draw against teams 2 - 5 be acceptable not a loss, but that's beside the point. The point is (please try to keep up harr1984) that the league position you finish is not dictated by your standing against the teams better than you. More often than not, you can be clearly an inferior team and still finish higher, just because you are more consistent and get the results you are supposed to get against lesser teams.

I would quite happily lose both games to Chelsea, Man U, City and Arsenal next season if it meant we won the league. I remember Mark Viduka made a comment once that he doesn't care if he lost every game, as long as he won the league. People laughed, but it was actually a very clever point. He's a wise man.

And my point is the natural order of things. More resources = greater chance of success.

We have a very tight wage structure. People keep banging on blaming the Manager for not having quality in depth. But we can't afford quality in depth. We can't do what City, Chelsea, Utd or even Arsenal can do and have someone on ?ú100K a week sitting on the bench just in case we need them. Because of that we can't rotate as effectively as our back up players will never be of the same quality as our first teamers in every single position.

Therefore we are more likely to falter later during the season, and more likely to be inconsistent.

 

[harr1984]

As would a home draw against teams 2 - 5 be acceptable not a loss, but that's beside the point. The point is (please try to keep up harr1984) that the league position you finish is not dictated by your standing against the teams better than you. More often than not, you can be clearly an inferior team and still finish higher, just because you are more consistent and get the results you are supposed to get against lesser teams.

I would quite happily lose both games to Chelsea, Man U, City and Arsenal next season if it meant we won the league. I remember Mark Viduka made a comment once that he doesn't care if he lost every game, as long as he won the league. People laughed, but it was actually a very clever point. He's a wise man.

I've kept up fine thanks, just pointed out your previous post was completely illogical which it quite clearly was. If you'd bothered to convey your thoughts like this in the previous post then there wouldn't of been any need...

 

[Rossi22]

And defenders. When fully fit I believe the midfield of Bale - Modric - Parker - Lennon with VDV in the hole in front of them is as good as anything currently in the Premiership. Our defence is often woeful, but has been protected massively this year because the midfield is so good at keeping possession that our defence isn't tested as much. We saw against City, Utd, Arsenal and Norwich just how good our defence actually is when the midfield fails to perform.

:yawn:

Protected massively :mrgreen: Our midfield is three parts strawberry, jelly and ice cream. You keep telling yourself our defence is crap, any defence will struggle with such a wide open midfield ahead of them, even then a couple of batterings distorted the goals conceded figure. Funnily enough Walker, Kaboul and Ekotto were widely accepted as being amongst the best in their respective positions last season yet they're the three you can't go a day without needlessly slagging off.

 

[africanspurs]

you really do think you know everything

i know whatever happens in the future you will be on here twisting everything everyone says to suit your own agenda, running away from debates where you get verbally smacked down, doing your best to create an divisive atmosphere, attacking anyone who has a differing view to your own and generally actuing like a the massive wind up merchant you are

remind me never to get on your bad side

and please , nicely (and gently with a caressing feel) reign me in if i get out of hand

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

would those that want Harry out still want Harry had the legitimate goals that were wrongly chalked off - that would in all probability have seen us 3rd - not been disallowed?

it's a conundrum, as had all things been equal, then Harry was (is) good enough to get us 3rd. (and no, i'm pretty sure that the gooners / other teams didn't have 4 wrongly disallowed game-changing goals)

 

[BrainOfLevy]

a) We have less revenue
b) We aren't sugar daddied
c) First team investment in the last 3 seasons has been minimal. Why? Because we have to SELL players before we can buy.

Take a look at the FACTS and figures regarding revenue, fan bases etc. We should be 6th. Anything more is us punching above our weight whether we like to admit that or not.

I agree that we should be 6th, but that's if all the other clubs are actually performing as they should too.

If we knew how bad Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool were going to be, should we still be 6th? Is 4th even that much of an achievement? I don't think it is.

I don't know what point I'm making, as I don't think it was down to Redknapp being a bad manager, just speculation that killed us. I agree that in the grand scheme of things, we probably should be 6th. But that doesn't take into account that certain teams will mis-use their resources. Certain teams will have terrible injuries. Certain teams will hire the wrong managers and certain teams will come to the end of their life cycle as a top performing team and be ripe for rebuilding. It's at that point that other aspects come into play.

So with all that taken into account, should we still have been 6th considering what we knew about the season?

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

Where did I say that?

it's the implication - you don't change a manager if you don't think it'll improve our current position.

come on, don't play dumb.

 

[africanspurs]

its amazing, but we over achieve on our target during the season and because of this dropping ONE place into the position that would have been considered a RAGING success at the start of the season has been considered a disaster

audere est facere my ass

 

[Superted]

it's the implication - you don't change a manager if you don't think it'll improve our current position.

come on, don't play dumb.

I don't remember using the word "guarantee". Or do you guarantee that with Redknapp next season we'll finish 4th or better?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

its amazing, but we over achieve on our target during the season and because of this dropping ONE place into the position that would have been considered a RAGING success at the start of the season has been considered a disaster

audere est facere my ass

But again, if we knew how bad our 3 competitors for that spot would have been, it wouldn't have been considered a raging success at all. The fact that we didn't know they were going to be that bad is actually irrelevant, because they just were.

If those 4 goals stood correctly then we probably would have gotten 3rd. And if the England speculation never happened we probably would have strolled into it. But we didn't. Not saying that is Harry's fault and bashing him, I'm saying we were incredibly unlucky and there were other factors at play.

So considering these other factors, I'm taking issue with the fact that we can still say 4th was a raging success considering the natural order of things. It wasn't, considering the actual reality of things in the season just passed. I'm not looking to apportion blame, I'm simply saying that it wasn't a massive success.

 

[Rossi22]

its amazing, but we over achieve on our target during the season and because of this dropping ONE place into the position that would have been considered a RAGING success at the start of the season has been considered a disaster

audere est facere my ass

More the manner of it than anything, if we'd been swapping 3rd/4th with Arsenal all season then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we blew it and many attribute the blame on Harry taking his eye off the ball because he was too busy flirting with England.

 

[africanspurs]

But again, if we knew how bad our 3 competitors for that spot would have been, it wouldn't have been considered a raging success at all. The fact that we didn't know they were going to be that bad is actually irrelevant, because they just were.

If those 4 goals stood correctly then we probably would have gotten 3rd. And if the England speculation never happened we probably would have strolled into it. But we didn't. Not saying that is Harry's fault and bashing him, I'm saying we were incredibly unlucky and there were other factors at play.

So considering these other factors, I'm taking issue with the fact that we can still say 4th was a raging success considering the natural order of things. It wasn't, considering the actual reality of things in the season just passed. I'm not looking to apportion blame, I'm simply saying that it wasn't a massive success.

i see your point. good ones too

but unless you have a crystal ball then 4th at any point should be considered good

not to mention that it wasnt as clearly that the other teams were bad as it was that the rest of the premiership are getting better at grinding out results, so now they dont just lose when a team undrperforms

which brings me to something else, your talking about the factors that contributed to us being seen as title contenders. what about the factors that HINDERED us? what do you have to say about them?

 

[africanspurs]

More the manner of it than anything, if we'd been swapping 3rd/4th with Arsenal all season then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we blew it and many attribute the blame on Harry taking his eye off the ball because he was too busy flirting with England.

okay this i do agree with , like between 70 to 90 %

we cant be sure but i think there was something in it.

but also that england distraction just happened to land in our most difficult period of the season, team match up wise

 

[billyiddo]

More the manner of it than anything, if we'd been swapping 3rd/4th with Arsenal all season then it wouldn't have been so bad, but we blew it and many attribute the blame on Harry taking his eye off the ball because he was too busy flirting with England.

yeah, it isn't the fact we dropped from 3rd to 4th and it isn't the fact we finished 4th that people are unhappy - it's the circumstances in which it happened.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I don't remember using the word "guarantee". Or do you guarantee that with Redknapp next season we'll finish 4th or better?

no, but you advocate change which suggests you believe someone else would do better. i'm saying that this is better; that we're improving over time and that a semblance of stability and continuity will aid that progress.

i don't know your personal motivation for it, but a lot of feeling is that Harry is to 'blame' and it's his 'fault' that we've come 4th. that's amazing to me. forgive me if that's not your personal stance.

the original question was, 'is Harry the man to take us to the CL'. my answer is yes because he's got us in the CL places 2 years out of 3, which, for a club like ours, is pretty remarkable. so, he's clearly capable. i don't feel like that's an outlandish conclusion based on the evidence we have.

there seems to be a lot of impatience. we can't just click our fingers and make it happen. i feel that we're on a broadly upward curve and that it would be unwise to voluntarily disrupt that. i don't know if 24 sports news, talkbrick, agents provocateur in the gutter press and forums like this help fuel the fire of discontent, but as Spurs fan i see it that we're in a pretty good place at the moment. i've been a fan since i was a kid in the late 80s, so this is best run of form that i can really remember. before Harry, we'd never even finished in the top 6 three years running.

someone else may do better. Harry might not get top 4 for us next year - none of us know, but there's an awful lot of conviction around here that a change will definitely improve our fortunes. i disagree with the conclusive manner with which a lot of that is asserted.

a question for you - who would you put in charge?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

:yawn:

Protected massively :mrgreen: Our midfield is three parts strawberry, jelly and ice cream. You keep telling yourself our defence is crap, any defence will struggle with such a wide open midfield ahead of them, even then a couple of batterings distorted the goals conceded figure. Funnily enough Walker, Kaboul and Ekotto were widely accepted as being amongst the best in their respective positions last season yet they're the three you can't go a day without needlessly slagging off.

Where have I named individuals? And I am not sure whether you're being obtuse on person, or whether you really have a complete lack of footballing understanding as to what I am conveying about possession based football.