Harry Kane MBE

[DeanoAustin]

What is winning a league or a cup historically anyway? Isn’t it just a record?

A cup competition played every 4 years is a far cry from a league record.

Klose has the medals - he’s won cups and league titles - by your logic you should then consider him elite! He doesn’t have a Bundusleaga top scorer record.

A cup or league can't be taken away. A record can.

My logic doesn't say Klose should be considered elite. Like I said "Not every player who wins trophies is elite. But every elite player wins trophies."

For me, the likes of Pele, Maradona, Puskas, Zidane, Baggio, Ronaldos, Messi, Cruyff, Greaves, Rooney, Bale etc. were elite players (I'm sure I could list dozens more). They all have something Harry doesn't.

 

[SpurMeUp]

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...ern-munich-transfer-to-barcelona-legend-20569

Lewandowski at number 2 and Muller at number one Bundeslega scorers of all time are both considered elite…

 

[AdamB]

Robbie Keane has 68 goals for Ireland. He has more than three times as many as the next person down. He scored them for a team that ranged from GHod-awful to reasonably good. As good as Keane was, and I'm a big fan, he'll never be considered one of the all time greats. He also has more medals than Kane.

Very different size countries!! Think the kane and Keane situations are very different!

 

[SpurMeUp]

A cup or league can't be taken away. A record can.

My logic doesn't say Klose should be considered elite. Like I said "Not every player who wins trophies is elite. But every elite player wins trophies."

For me, the likes of Pele, Maradona, Puskas, Zidane, Baggio, Ronaldos, Messi, Cruyff, Greaves, Rooney, Bale etc. were elite players (I'm sure I could list dozens more). They all have something Harry doesn't.

Biagio, Kane, LeTiss, Schneider etc

 

[SpurMeUp]

Two things remain:

1. it is far harder to be a leading league’s all time top scorer, than win a league or cup medal.

2. very few players make these elite top scorer lists. A handful of players! Verses the hundreds if not thousands of league and cup medal winners.

 

[SpurMeUp]

And finally:

If medals do matter, is one or two enough? Surely if using medals as a barometer of greatness a minimum of 10 or so should be applied. A paltry one or two is enough? Or is it just a monkey off your back that those who criticise like to throw at you?

 

[Mulletperm]

Nicky Butt won 6 Premier League medals, 3 FA Cup medals, 4 Community Shields and a Champions League medal.

Who is more likely to be remembered as a great footballer (he was obviously a good player), him or Kane?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Nicky Butt won 6 Premier League medals, 3 FA Cup medals, 4 Community Shields and a Champions League medal.

Who is more likely to be remembered as a great footballer (he was obviously a good player), him or Kane?

That's not the point that's being made.

Name me a great player who has never won a trophy?

 

[mjc23]

That's not the point that's being made.

Name me a great player who has never won a trophy?

Plenty of decent players who haven't won one, but as stated, I believe Kane is the only truly world class player never to have a trophy/winners medal to his name.
Unless we're counting the much coveted Audi and Tiger cups.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Isn’t the point you strip out the third variables to assess a players ability? Just look at them in ability alone. Don’t take into consideration the team etc. just their individual abilities. Doing that Kane would probably come out favourably.

Although you could argue he has had teams built around him at Spurs too.

All told, goal scoring is highly individual. We know from stats and our own eyes Kane converts an extremely high level of chances which is backed up by his stats. If he became the highest scorer in the PL era anyone trying to argue he is not elite is going to struggle.

It’s just not a great look to say that Kane is better than Henry when Henry has an equally great goalscoring record (longevity aside) AND has medals to underpin his goal tally. When you talk about the best players in the history of the game, the vast majority have won European Cups, World Cups, European Championships, Copa Americas. Maybe not all of them but most of the greats have at least one of them under their belts. I do agree with Deano’s logic, the best players do influence and win the big games, Harry hasn’t done that. It’s not all his fault but he hasn’t stood out in any of the big knockout games for Spurs or England to the best of my recollection. I don’t understand how or why you wouldn’t at least take into account medals/trophies.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Plenty of decent players who haven't won one, but as stated, I believe Kane is the only truly world class player never to have a trophy/winners medal to his name.
Unless we're counting the much coveted Audi and Tiger cups.

Absolutely. Plenty of very good players haven't won trophies. And plenty of relatively average or mediocre ones have.

But if the argument is that Kane is an elite player and he is the only elite player in the 100 years+ history of the game to never win a trophy, that's stretching credibility IMO.

 

[Jurgen the German]

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...ern-munich-transfer-to-barcelona-legend-20569

Lewandowski at number 2 and Muller at number one Bundeslega scorers of all time are both considered elite…

Lewandowski is undoubtedly a world class player. He was mustard for Dortmund as well, not just for Bayern. If he had played in this country we would be falling over ourselves to praise him. The only people who don’t recognise him as a great striker are probably the same people who say Messi hasn’t played in the premier league so he can’t be considered to be better than Ronaldo.

 

[SpurMeUp]

It’s just not a great look to say that Kane is better than Henry when Henry has an equally great goalscoring record (longevity aside) AND has medals to underpin his goal tally. When you talk about the best players in the history of the game, the vast majority have won European Cups, World Cups, European Championships, Copa Americas. Maybe not all of them but most of the greats have at least one of them under their belts. I do agree with Deano’s logic, the best players do influence and win the big games, Harry hasn’t done that. It’s not all his fault but he hasn’t stood out in any of the big knockout games for Spurs or England to the best of my recollection. I don’t understand how or why you wouldn’t at least take into account medals/trophies.

What you are saying therefore, is if we’d got an FA cup with Kane you would appraise him differently. You would think he was a better player and you think history would judge him differently.

Fair enough. I would still maintain that the all time top goal scorer in the PL is far more impressive but each to their own.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Lewandowski is undoubtedly a world class player. He was mustard for Dortmund as well, not just for Bayern. If he had played in this country we would be falling over ourselves to praise him. The only people who don’t recognise him as a great striker are probably the same people who say Messi hasn’t played in the premier league so he can’t be considered to be better than Ronaldo.

And Klose not so much. Despite him having cup and league medals to his name. Yet the two at the top of the Bundaslega charts are truly elite. Of course, two of the very best.

 

[Kandi1977]

Min jae for sure
Pavard is average IMO
Upmecano as I said, I thought would step up at Bayern… he will now lose his place
De ligt hasn’t lived up to his Ajax hype anywhere so far
We will see how they fare with a stopper alongside them in MinJae
They are the epitome of name players

Pavard has been, and still is one of the best right backs in the world! You are utterly deluded

 

[DubSpur]

Kane's only 19th on the all time/irrespective of sponsorship list though. With 4 more decent seasons he might end up about 6th, but he wont likely catch Shearer (including his Soton spell) 5th place

Kane has just come off a 30 goal season and you think he wouldn't score 70 in 4 seasons?

 

[AdamB]

Two things remain:

1. it is far harder to be a leading league’s all time top scorer, than win a league or cup medal.

2. very few players make these elite top scorer lists. A handful of players! Verses the hundreds if not thousands of league and cup medal winners.

+ top scorer for your country (which is a major country), and probably by a country mile by the time he retires

 

[Gutter Boy]

Kane has just come off a 30 goal season and you think he wouldn't score 70 in 4 seasons?

He's 30 now. We all saw how dramatically Vertoghen and Lloris fell off cliffs when age suddenly caught up with them. It's not guaranteed that his body will hold on that long.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Lewandowski is undoubtedly a world class player. He was mustard for Dortmund as well, not just for Bayern. If he had played in this country we would be falling over ourselves to praise him. The only people who don’t recognise him as a great striker are probably the same people who say Messi hasn’t played in the premier league so he can’t be considered to be better than Ronaldo.

Lewandowski is the one CF in the past decade or so I consider probably better than Kane (Benzema perhaps in there too). He is/was a top top player

 

[DubSpur]

He's 30 now. We all saw how dramatically Vertoghen and Lloris fell off cliffs when age suddenly caught up with them. It's not guaranteed that his body will hold on that long.

And for every Vertonghen there's a Sheringham, for every Lloris there's a Buffon. Just plucking names out of the air has no bearing on Kane.
There was no sign of any issues with his body last season and he looks after himself really well. There won't be many that are more professional in that regard.
He doesn't rely on pace so he's not going to tail off, it's more likely that he'll be similar to Sheringham who also didn't rely on pace.