Grealish

[BrainOfLevy]

does anyone remember the days when we would dream about becoming a CL regular and being able to then attract top class players to the club. Nothing against the lads but Grealish and Sissoko level signings were not really part of the plan were they

its all gone a bit Pete Tong hasnt it

Well, no. The Dier’s, the Dele’s, the Kane’s, the Davies, they are the reason we are a consistent CL side now.

 

[tommysvr]

does anyone remember the days when we would dream about becoming a CL regular and being able to then attract top class players to the club. Nothing against the lads but Grealish and Sissoko level signings were not really part of the plan were they

its all gone a bit Pete Tong hasnt it

It’s a great problem. We are finally at the point where we are so close to being title winning side, that improvements are extremely hard to find.

Give me a bricky transfer window over a bricky season any day of the week.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think this smells of the Villa Chairman buying into the story of facing down Levy, as Jeremy Peace did. Well done to both of them for making a stance, but WBA got relegated and I wouldn’t be surprised if this new owner just doesn’t really know what he is doing.

In both cases I think the clubs over estimated just how much we wanted the players we were bidding for. We had Chadli performing well in Berahino’s role until Son came through and this time, it always felt like an opportunistic signing. I can see Levy making one more bid, and if they reject it, he will shrug his shoulders and say ‘they never learn.’

While WBA did indeed lose out massively with Berahino in the end I do not blame Peace for taking the stance that he did with us. We had been talking to the player's representatives for a long while and had seriously turned the player's head to the point that he wanted out and was not going to sign a new contract there. Despite wanting the player we then waited right up to deadline day before following up our interest with a bid. Our opening bid was also embarrassingly low. The final bid that we ended up making about 5 bids later on on deadline day would've got the player earlier in the window. Of course not getting the player turned out to be a good thing, but the way we went about trying to get him wasn't great.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

If I live to be a hundred I will never understand this brinkmanship by Levy, putting in bids at the eleventh hour and 30 minutes when the world and its dog knew that we wanted him and that the player wanted to join. I can only explain it by a narcotic-like buzz that Levy must get from this. I am his biggest fan in everything connected with the club but not when it comes to the transfer window. By all means do as much brinkmanship as you want when we have a player other clubs are desperate for but the boot does not fit on the other shoe. All it does is tinkle off thew other club and increase their intransigence.

After all, when has this last minute brinkmanship ever brought us results? This is Berahino all over again, who we will never know how good he could have become with Poch's guidance. I am sure that people will say that we are not desperate for Grealish to sign but that is not the point. Poch wanted him, the player wanted to come and Villa were willing to sell, as long as their valuation was met. I am not saying pay through the nose... just move early enough to give you enough wiggle room to chase alternatives if the deal goes bottom up!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Maybe it’s late as we had offers in for our players which we wouldntt accept until we had a replacement

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think by ‘coming to the table’ so to speak which WBA had done, means they were open to selling him, even if it got down to deadline day. It seemed like negotiations were on going and hope at least on SB’s side and our side that a deal could be reached. That we didn’t want to pay silly money for a player we didn’t desperately need wasn’t our fault IMO and I think the same thing is happening here.

I’m sure we’d like to take the opportunity to add a young English player to our ranks but we were never desperate for him. I think WBA misunderstood that and thought it was Levy being Levy, trying to force down a deal because he’s a master negotiator, when in actual fact we offered probably about as much as we thought he was worth.

I’ll always look back on that saga and feel quite sorry for Berahino. Yes the onus is on him to not let the business of football get in the way of professional development but there is something to be said for giving young players the right environment to help them reach their potential, under a better standard of coaching, against a better quality of player, and frankly in a club with a culture and environment that could have kept him on a level. Not withstanding the idea that you can ask a player to give their all and I think most players will, but their all when they are fully motivated and willing to run through walls for the club they are at is different to their all when they are spinning their wheels. Once the ‘love’ is gone it must be hard to get that back.

I think he was the unfortunate casualty of Peace wanting to prove he was the big man against Levy, and Peace misreading how much we needed him, and misreading how motivated Berahino was to stay. The guy has been on a downward spiral ever since, and if he had made it into our club it could have been different for him, with our standards, with our support. Berahino has to take some responsibility, but I think most clubs are wise now to how important genuine motivation is. Like under Harry I’m sure our players ‘worked hard’ but under Poch, the level, the consistency, the understanding is such that the players are pushing each other on to levels they never thought possible. And that takes buy in, so once Walker’s head went it was best to get him out.

I hope the same thing doesn’t happen to Grealish. It probably won’t, it’s his boyhood club, but there is something to be said for a guy being denied the chance to play in the CL and not only step up one level, but 2 or 3. Will he be able to keep his motivation at the level required when such a sliding doors moment goes the wrong way?

Not quite. WBA were indeed open to selling him (Pullis wanted the club to sell him to use the funds elsewhere). However they wanted to sell for a certain price and have a reasonable amount of time to them use the money brought in to strengthen.

The final bid that we ended up making was more than WBA would've accepted earlier in the window. Peace ended up wanting to prove he was the big man against Levy because of the way we went about trying to get the player. Peace was silly not taking the eventual offer right as the window was closing and I would imagine he regrets that now, but equally Levy could've got the player for a price lower than that figure earlier in the window. It is probably a similar story with Grealish. It wouldn't surprise me if we end up paying more to get him today/tomorrow than we could've purchased him for early in the summer. In trying to screw a desperate club over the fee it will end up costing us a higher fee and Poch won't get any pre-season to work with the player.

Sometimes the tactic works (i.e. when we got Carrick off of West Ham who desperately needed funds) but I think it does hamper our pre-season preparations and doesn't always even save us any money.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

While WBA did indeed lose out massively with Berahino in the end I do not blame Peace for taking the stance that he did with us. We had been talking to the player's representatives for a long while and had seriously turned the player's head to the point that he wanted out and was not going to sign a new contract there. Despite wanting the player we then waited right up to deadline day before following up our interest with a bid. Our opening bid was also embarrassingly low. The final bid that we ended up making about 5 bids later on on deadline day would've got the player earlier in the window. Of course not getting the player turned out to be a good thing, but the way we went about trying to get him wasn't great.

I can appreciate that, I still don't understand why they were even negotiating though. They were obviously willing to sell - and could have simply not come to the table surely? I can see why we would have played a part in turning the player's head but a firm hand at the beginning of the window to say he isn't leaving unless you give us £50M or something silly to get us off the phone would have done it. If memory serves he had two years left on his contract so they were willing to cash in, and then it becomes a negotiation. At the end of the day Peace decided to not let the deal happen because he wanted to make a point to Levy, not because it was the best deal for his club or for Berahino as far as I can see.

To that end...I didn't realise Grealish had two years left on his contract too. I mean for goodness sake, it really does feel like this new Villa guy is trying to make a name for himself. Given their financial situation, and given his contract situation, I can completely see why we are negotiating hard for this. If they seriously want to risk keeping him to see if they can get to the PL before having to face up to any of the FFP stuff its just a ridiculous risk to take and the kind of amateur hour thinking that got them into this mess in the first place. Unless he signs a new contract, he's going to have 18 months left in January and his price will dramatically drop.

To people saying Levy has left it late again...he kind of has, but also hasn't. The old 'late' was getting a player after 3 or 4 games had taken place, now he'll definitely miss one if he joins.

 

[Legohamster]

Maybe it’s late as we had offers in for our players which we wouldntt accept until we had a replacement

Are we the finically hamstrung we can’t sign anyone till we sell?

 

[scaramanga]

Well, no. The Dier’s, the Dele’s, the Kane’s, the Davies, they are the reason we are a consistent CL side now.

Those players were young and ahead of the curve.

If Grealish had been at this point in his development at 20 we'd have good reason to believe he'd scale the heights they have. He's older than Alli and is way behind him in his development. Dier and Alli cost £5m each, Davies £10m and Kane nothing. £25m+ is a massive punt.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Not quite. WBA were indeed open to selling him (Pullis wanted the club to sell him to use the funds elsewhere). However they wanted to sell for a certain price and have a reasonable amount of time to them use the money brought in to strengthen.

The final bid that we ended up making was more than WBA would've accepted earlier in the window. Peace ended up wanting to prove he was the big man against Levy because of the way we went about trying to get the player. Peace was silly not taking the eventual offer right as the window was closing and I would imagine he regrets that now, but equally Levy could've got the player for a price lower than that figure earlier in the window. It is probably a similar story with Grealish. It wouldn't surprise me if we end up paying more to get him today/tomorrow than we could've purchased him for early in the summer. In trying to screw a desperate club over the fee it will end up costing us a higher fee and Poch won't get any pre-season to work with the player.

Sometimes the tactic works (i.e. when we got Carrick off of West Ham who desperately needed funds) but I think it does hamper our pre-season preparations and doesn't always even save us any money.

We negotiated for a player with 2 years left on his contract, who clearly wanted to leave, who the Manager wanted out so he could invest in other areas. I'm just not seeing why we should have paid over the odds considering we weren't desperate for Berahino (Poch really liked Chadli and we probably already had our eye on Son), and just like we aren't desperate for Grealish now.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Those players were young and ahead of the curve.

If Grealish had been at this point in his development at 20 we'd have good reason to believe he'd scale the heights they have. He's older than Alli and is way behind him in his development. And Alli cost £5m.

He's 22 and has been carrying an entire club on his back. Mason was 24 when he broke through and Grealish is more talented. If we get him, I think he'll fit in just fine.

 

[scaramanga]

He's 22 and has been carrying an entire club on his back. Mason was 24 when he broke through and Grealish is more talented. If we get him, I think he'll fit in just fine.

He's 23 in a few days I believe.

Mason ended up at Hull

 

[Finney Is Back]

We negotiated for a player with 2 years left on his contract, who clearly wanted to leave, who the Manager wanted out so he could invest in other areas. I'm just not seeing why we should have paid over the odds considering we weren't desperate for Berahino (Poch really liked Chadli and we probably already had our eye on Son), and just like we aren't desperate for Grealish now.

I'm not sure you are getting it..... The money that we ended up offering for Berahino about 10 minutes before the window closed was more than the fee that WBA had indicated they wanted for him earlier in the window (that we probably could've negotiated down a little). By waiting until the very last day of the window to make his first bid Levy was trying to bully WBA into selling a player after already turning his head via the press and the player's agent. LEvy could've done the deal for a lower fee much earlier in the window and given Poch a pre-season with the player. By waiting until the end of the window Levy's actions meant that we would've had to pay over the odds, worse than that he tinkled off WBA so much that they just refused to sell so Poch didn't get the player he wanted.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Are we the finically hamstrung we can’t sign anyone till we sell?

Maybe we don’t want too and we don’t need too

We have the homegrown issue hanging around us

The reality is a player for our first 11 needs to be either developed by the club from a talent or would cost a packet as a ready made option ... and the latter players don’t leave the clubs their at generally

The former are harder to find and are gambles

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Those players were young and ahead of the curve.

If Grealish had been at this point in his development at 20 we'd have good reason to believe he'd scale the heights they have. He's older than Alli and is way behind him in his development. Dier and Alli cost £5m each, Davies £10m and Kane nothing. £25m+ is a massive punt.

Fair enough... I have yet to see a poster who believe we should pay over the odds for him. But that still does not explain this ridiculous brinkmanship.

What is so difficult to agree the maximum that you are willing to pay for a player who wants to join, make a offer early in the season and then move on to other targets if there is no scope of agreement.

 

[DeanoAustin]

It’s a great problem. We are finally at the point where we are so close to being title winning side, that improvements are extremely hard to find.

Give me a bricky transfer window over a bricky season any day of the week.

Couldn’t agree more with your second statement. The 90s and first half of the 00s were pretty abysmal.

But you’re overstating where we are on your first point. We’re a distance from winning the title and improvements aren’t that hard to find. There are a dozen or so that would improve us who have all been mentioned on this page. However, identifying players that will improve us who we are willing to pay for is much more difficult. All of which indicates we may have hit a ceiling.

 

[Baleforce]

He's 22 and has been carrying an entire club on his back. Mason was 24 when he broke through and Grealish is more talented. If we get him, I think he'll fit in just fine.

He’s not carried them very far.

 

[StephenH]

We have plateaued and now need to let the benefits of the new stadium be allowed to take effect.
We can then and it might be some considerable time, start to reign in the better financed European elite clubs.

 

[StephenH]

He’s not carried them very far.

He was off a long time with his kidney problems.
I think he will/would have been good for us.

 

[DeanoAustin]

We have plateaued and now need to let the benefits of the new stadium be allowed to take effect.
We can then and it might be some considerable time, start to reign in the better financed European elite clubs.

If we hang around for that, we’ll be much worse off relative to other teams and relative to where we are now.

Eriksen has 3-4 years left at the top level. Kane has 6 or so. Lloris probably has the same. Jan has less. How long do you think they’ll hang around?